1897. 



/ 




Legislative Asse 
NEW SOUTH V VAJbisb, 



%Q> 



REPORT 



OF THE 




ROYAL COMMISSION 

TO INQUIRE INTO THE MANAGEMENT OF 

THE METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 
SEWER GE BOARD; 

TOG 



MINUTES OF 



t t 



1 



(^ommtesion. 



O f 



VICTORIA, by the G-race of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Queen, 
Defender of the Faith, and so forth, — 

To Our Trusty and Well-beloved — 

Joseph Baeling, Esquire, one of Our Justices of the Peace of Our Colony of New South 
Wales, Associate of the Institution of Civil Engineers, and Chairman of the Public Service 
Board ; 

Timothy Augustine Coghlan, Esquire, one of Our Justices of the Peace of Our said Colony ; 
and 

Geoege Alexander Wilson, Esquire, one of Our Justices of the Peace of Our said Colony, — 

Greeting : — 

Know ye, That We, reposing great trust and confidence in your ability, zeal, industry, 
discretion, and integrity, do, by tbese presents, authorise and appoint you, or any two of you, as herein- 
after mentioned, to make a diligent and full inquiry into the management of the Board of Water Supply 
and Sewerage, incorporated under the provisions of the Metropolitan Water and Sewerage Act of 1880, 
and to report whether, and if so by what means, that Department can be placed upon a more efficient and 
economical basis : And We do, by these presents, grant to you, or any two of you, at any meeting or 
meetings to which all of you shall have been duly summoned, full power and authority to call before 
you all such persons as you may judge necessary, by whom you may be better informed of the truth in 
the premises, and to require the production of all such books, papers, writings, and all other documents 
as you may deem expedient, and to visit and inspect the same at the offices or places where the same or 
any of them may be deposited, and to inquire of the premises by all lawful ways and means : And We 
do give you power, at your discretion, to procure such clerical and other assistance as you may deem 
necessary for enabling you duly to execute this Our Commission : And Our further will and pleasure 
is that you do, within three months after the date of this Our Commission, certify to Us, in the office of 
Our Chief Secretary, under your or any two of your hands and seals, what you shall find touching the 
premises : And We hereby command the said Board of Water Supply and Sewerage, and all persons 
employed by them, and all Government Officers and other persons whomsoever within Our said Colony, 
that they be assistant to you and each of you in the execution of these presents : And We appoint you, 
the said Joseph Baeling, Esquire, to be President of this Our Commission, which said Commission We 
declare to be a Commission for all purposes of the Act 44 Victoria No. 1, intituled " An Act to regulate 
the talcing of Evidence by Commissioners under tlie Great Seal." 

In testimony whereof, We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent, and the Great Seal 
of Our said Colony of New South Wales to be hereunto affixed. 

Witness Our Right Trusty and Well-beloved Cousin, Henet Robeet, Viscount Hampden, 
Our Governor and Commander-in-Chief of Our Colony of New South Wales and 
its Dependencies, at Government House, Sydney, in New South Wales aforesaid, 
this fourth day of Pebruary, in the year of Our Lord one thousand eight hundred 
and ninety-seven, and in the sixtieth year of Our Reign. 



By Deputation from His Excellency, 



(L.S.) 



FRED. M. DARLEY, 

Lieutenant- G overnor. 

By His Excellency's Command, 

JAMES N. BRUNKER. 



Entered on Record by me, in Registee or Patents No. 18, page 308, this sixth day of Pebruary, 
one thousand eight hundred and ninety-seven. 

Por the Colonial Secretary and Registrar of Records, 

CRITCHETT WALKER, 

Principal Under Secretary. 



VICTORIA, 



VICTORIA, by the G-race of Grod, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Queen, 
Defender of the Faith, and so forth, — 

To our Trusty and Well-beloved — 

James Powell, Esquire, Deputy Member of the Public Service Board, and one of Our Justices 
of the Peace of Our Colony of New South Wales, — 

Greeting : — 

Whereas by an instrument under the Great Seal of Oar Colony of New South Wales, bearing 
date the fourth day of February, one thousand eight hundred and ninety-seven, We did appoint 
certain gentlemen therein named to be Commissioners, to make a diligent and full inquiry into the manage- 
ment of the Board of Water Supply and Sewerage, incorporated under the provisions of the Metropolitan 
Water and Sewerage Act of 1880, and to report whether, and if so by what means, that Department can be 
placed upon a more efficient and economical basis : And whereas it hath appeared to Us to be expedient 
to appoint an additional Commissioner : Now therefore know you, that We, of Our special grace, have 
thought fit to appoint, and do hereby appoint, you to be such additional Commissioner accordingly. 

In testimony whereof, We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent, and the Great Seal 
of Our said Colony of New South Wales to be hereunto affixed. 

Witness OurRightTrustyand Well-beloved Cousin, Henet Eobeet, Viscount Hampdfjt, 
Our Governor and Commander-in-Chief of Our Colony of New South Wales and 
its Dependencies, at Government House, Sydney, in New South Wales aforesaid, 
this twenty-second day of May, in the year of Our Lord One thousand eight 
hundred and ninety-seven, and in the sixtieth year of Our reign. 

(l.s.) HAMPDEN. 

By His Excellency's Command, 

JAMES N. BRUNKER. 



Entered on record by me, in register of patents No. 18, page 428, this twenty-sixth day of May, 
one thousand eight hundred and ninety-seven. 

For the Colonial Secretary and Registrar of Records, 
CRITCHETT WALKER, 

Principal Under Secretary. 



ROYAL COMMISSION TO INQUIRE INTO THE MANAGEMENT OF THE BOARD OF 
WATER SUPPLY AND SEWERAGE. 

Whereas it is necessary to extend the time within which the Commissioners are to make their return in 
the above matter : Now therefore, I do hereby, with the advice of the Executive Council, extend the time 
within which the said Commissioners are to make such report for a period of three months, — to take effect 
from the 4th instant. 

Given under my hand, at Government House, Sydney, this fourth day of May, one thousand 
eight hundred and ninety-seven. 

HAMPDEN. 

By His Excellency's Command, 

JAMES N. BRUNKER. 



ROYAL COMMISSION TO INQUIRE INTO THE MANAGEMENT OF THE BOARD OF 
WATER SUPPLY AND SEWERAGE. 

Whereas the time appointed for the return of the Commission in the above matter was by an instrument 
dated the fourth day of May last extended for a period of three months : And whereas it is necessary to 
extend the same still further: Now, therefore, I do hereby, with the advice of the Executive Council, 
extend the time within which the Commissioners are to make their return to and for a further period of 
three months beyond the time in and by the aforesaid instrument appointed for the purpose, — to take 
effect from the 4th instant. 

Given under my hand, at Government House, Sydney, this fourth day of August, one thousand 
eight hundred and ninety-seven. 

HAMPDEN. 

By His Excellency's Command, 

JAMES N. BRUNKER. 



ROYAL COMMISSION OH METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND SEWERAGE 

BOARD. 



To His Excellency the Eight Honorable Henry Robert, Viscount Hampden, 
Governor and Commander-in-Chief of the Colony of New South Wales 
and its Dependencies. 

Mat it Please your Excellency, — 

"We, the Members of the Royal Commission appointed by your Excellency 
on the 4th February and the 22nd May, 1897, to make a full and diligent inquiry into 
the management of the Board of Water Supply and Sewerage, incorporated under 
the provisions of the "Metropolitan Water and Sewerage Act of 1880," and to 
report whether, and if so, by Avhat means, that Department can be placed upon a more 
efficient and economical basis, have the honor to submit the following Report : — 

Our inquiry was commenced on loth March, 1897, but, owing to the interrup- 
tions arising from the many other urgent matters which peremptorily claimed the 
attention of your Commissioners, it became necessary to request an extension of the 
time granted within which to make our Report, and your Excellency was pleased, on 
the 4th day of May, to grant an extension to the 4th day of August, and, from that 
day, a further extension to 4th November, 1897. 

We have held 21 meetings, and examined 12 witnesses. A number of visits 
have also been made by us, together or separately, to the offices of the Board, with 
the object of gaining an insight into the system and working of the Department. 
We have to acknowledge the willing assistance afforded to us in these investigations 
by the President, Chief Engineer, Secretary, and other prominent officers of the 
Board. 

Municipal Control op Water Supply and Sewerage Works. 

Before entering upon the discussion of the subject submitted to us for report, 
we desire to draw attention to the evidence of the Right Worshipful the Mayor of 
Sydney and Mr. Alderman Jeanneret, who strongly advocate that the municipalities 
should have the control of the works within their boundaries and the administration 
of the rates. But as we were informed that this issue did not come within the 
scope of our Commission, we express no opinion on the question raised by these 
gentlemen. 

Magnitude of Operations entrusted to the Board. 

The Metropolitan Board of Water Supply and Sewerage was established in 
March, 1888, under the Act 43 Vic. No. 22 as amended by the Act 51 Vic. No. 28. 
The management of the Water Supply was transferred to the Board on the 25th 
May, 1888, and that of the Sewerage on the 30th September, 1889. Excluding 
those works carried out by the Sydney City Council, and one or two of the suburban 
municipalities, the whole of the Water Supply and Sewerage Works have been 
constructed by the Government. The operations of the Board embrace the manage- 
ment and maintenance of the entire system, and the carrying out of the subsidiary 
reticulation of both Water Supply and Sewerage, the Government still continuing 
to construct all the main works. 

The 



The following tabulated statements will serve to show the magnitude of the 
works, and the large expansion that has taken place since the Board assumed 
control : — 



Water Supply. 



j) ate Capital Cost of 
Works. 


13 

-§' Tr'EI: 

11°! 


Estimated 

Population 

supplied with 

Water. 


o.S c* 
ill 


Number of 

Properties 

rated. 


Annual 
Revenue. 


Annual 
Working 
Expenses. 


Year ended 31 December, 18S8 ... 
Tear ended 30 June, 1 897 


£ 
3,004,557 

4,244,550 


24 

57 


296,246 
418,512 


346 

925 


£ 
58,8S7 i 125,486 

120,901 ' 175,984 


£ 
19,205 

40,821 


Increases during period of Board's 


£1,239,993 


33 


122 266 


579 




£21,616 













* Exclusive of some 40 miles of trunk and pumping mains 



Sewerage and Storm-water Channels. 



Capital Cost of 
Works. 


Number of 

Boroughs and 

Districts 

sewered. 


£ 
1,281,045 

2,01S,120 


5 
24 



Number of 

Properties 

rated. 



Annual 
Working 
Expenses 



Year ended 31 December, 1890 , 
Year ended 30 June, 1897 



106,S43 
22S,446 



Increases during period of Board's 
control 



£737,075 



94 
274 



22,259 
62,657 



£ 
S1,S00 



S7.652 



£ 
22,249 



40.39S 



The total capital debt of the Board at 30th June, 1897, is thus shown to be 
£6,262,670, which amount, however, does riot include a sum of £64,793, which 
represents the cost of their new offices. 

The aggregate revenue of the Board since the date of its inception up to 
30th June, 1897, has been as follows : — 

£ 

From Water Supply 1,486,414 

From Sewerage ... ... ... ... ... ... 654,072 



Making a srrand total Revenue of 



... £2,140,486 



The combined working expenses during the same 

period have amounted to ... ■ ... ... ... £552,698 

From the foregoing statements it will be seen how great are the interests 
controlled by the Board. These affect, on the one hand, the Government, which has 
constructed the works at a cost of £5,499,978 out of State funds, and has also taken 
over from the Municipalities concerned debts amounting to £385,310, making a total 
of £5,885,288, which is raised to the £6,262,670 shown in the tabulated statements 
given above by the addition of the City Council Water Fund of £377,382 ; and, on 
the other, a large population (numbering some 420,000), whose health and welfare 
are intimately dependent upon a perfect system of water supply and sewerage. 

Constitution and Duties of the Board. 

The Board consists of seven members, three of whom are nominated by the 
Government, two elected by the City Council, and two by the various Suburban 
Councils conjointly. The President is one of the Government nominees, and 
receives a fixed salary of £600 per annum ; the other members are paid a fee of 
£5 each per sitting, the total amount payable to any one member during the twelve 
months being limited to the sum of £250. The annual cost of the Board in 
salaries and fees accordingly reaches the sum of £2,100. The total cost since its 
inception in March, 1888, up to 30th June, 1897, has amounted to the sum of 
£18,604. [Fide Appendix A.] A 



vu 

A meeting of the Board is held at least once a week, and lasts, on the average, 
for about two hours. A specimen of the business-sheet of the Board will be found 
in the Appendix. [ Vide Appendix B.] 

The members are also called upon to attend occasional Committee meetings, 
and they likewise make visits of inspection to the various works, either completed 
or in course of construction. 



Position and Special Duties op President op Board. 

The special duties attaching to the position of President are manifold, and of 
great importance. To him are entrusted the general oversight and management of 
this large State Department, and it will be readily understood that the duties and 
responsibilities of the position are varied and onerous. 

A careful perusal of the lengthy list of duties devolving on the President, 
as detailed in the evidence given by Colonel Bowe, will be sufficient, your Commis- 
sioners think, to show that it is impossible for any gentleman, without giving all his 
time and energies to the task, to satisfactorily carry out these multifarious and 
important duties, wbich require for then efficient discharge a large business 
experience. Having a private business to engage his attention, Colonel Bowe can 
give only a portion of his time to the supervision of the Department, and as a rule 
he devotes from two to three hours in each working-day to this purpose. 

At present the holder of this office is appointed for a term of four years, but 
your Commissioners are of opinion that it would be advisable to alter the term, and 
to make the appointment a permanent one, to be held during good behaviour. There 
is, your Commissioners submit, good reason for recommending that fixity of tenure 
be given to the holder of this important office, and that, in view of the fact that the 
Government is responsible for the large capital debt, the appointment, as hitherto, 
should vest in the Governor. 

B-eorganisation op the Board. 

As regards the duties performed by the Board generally, examination shows 
that a large portion of the business brought before it consists of routine matters 
which could be satisfactorily dealt with by the President after consultation with his 
responsible officers. We are, therefore, of opinion that the number of members 
can' with advantage be reduced to three, namely, a permanent President appointed 
by the Government, one member elected by the City Council, and one by the 
suburban municipalities. 

The annual salary which we would suggest as a proper remuneration for the 
office of President is £1,000. The fees to be paid to each of the two elected 
members should not, your Commissioners think, exceed the sum of £3 3s. per 
sitting, the total amount receivable by each member in any one year being limited 
to £150. 

Under such an arrangement, the cost of the Board would be reduced from 
£2,100 to £1,300 per annum, and we are of opinion that its efficiency would be 
largely increased, mainly by reason of an officer being at the head of the establish- 
ment whose whole time would be devoted to the management. 

In submitting these recommendations, your Commissioners do not wish to be 
considered as casting any reflections on the present members of the Board, who 
have, doubtless, given their best attention to the complicated business entrusted to 
their administration. 



Number and Character op the Engineering and Clerical Stapp. 

The Staff employed in the business of the Department has attained to large 
proportions, and is classed in two divisions, namely, those employed under the 
direction of the Chief Engineer and those under the Secretary. The organisation 
of the Department under these two officers, and the general method of working 
carried out by them are, in the opinion of your Commissioners, satisfactory. The 

system 



system now adopted of regulating admission into the Board's service by means of 
competitive examination has proved successful in obtaining officers possessing the 
proper qualifications. 

The first-named division includes 329 officers and workmen of all grades, 
costing annually in salaries and wages about £50,600. Their duties consist in 
the construction of all subsidiary reticulation in both water supply and sewerage 
schemes, and in the oversight and maintenance of the entire system. A considerable 
portion of the above-mentioned sum, viz., £17,500, being the salaries and wages of 
engineers and others engaged on new works, is charged to the capital cost of the 
works, and, accordingly, does not appear in the item giving the Boai'd's annual 
working expenses. 

"With regard to the Engineer's Branch generally, your Commissioners have 
seen nothing to lead them to suppose that this Branch is either overmanned or 
overpaid. Mr. Small, the Chief Engineer, is an efficient officer, and speaks of his 
staff in terms of praise. Your Commissioners see no reason to disagree with his 
opinion. 

The Clerical Staff consists of 115 officers, and costs annually in salaries 
about £17,900. It may be asked whether so large a staff is really required to 
administer this branch of the Department. It deals with a yearly revenue of 
£263,500, and a total expenditure of £222,400, but as compared with other estab- 
lishments which conduct operations on an equal or even larger scale, the staff 
seems unusually large. It must, however, be taken into account that the work of 
the Board involves an immense amount of detail, arising partly from the require- 
ments of the Acts. The number of rate notices issued during the year 1896-7 was 
279,101, and the number of meters in operation Avas 6,814, necessitating the issue 
of about 10,400 accounts. The rates and accounts range from a few shillings up 
to many pounds, the smaller amounts, of course, largely preponderating, but the 
same process must be gone through with them as with the larger. 

Taking, therefore, everything into consideration, your Commissioners think 
that a fair explanation has been given of what appears at first sight to be an 
unnecessarily large staff. In saying this, however, your Commissioners anticipate 
that, in the event of their recommendation being approved of as to the appointment 
of a President who shall give his whole time to the duties of his office, improved 
methods of working will be found to be practicable which will have the effect of 
reducing the expenses of management. [ Vide Appendices C, D.] 

Recommendations as to certain Officers. 

Coming to the consideration of the Staff in detail, we are very favourably 
impressed with the way in which the Secretary conducts his duties, and are of 
opinion that his salary should be increased from £450 to £500 per annum. If the 
Department were to be continued on its present footing, an even larger salary would 
be justifiable ; but if our recommendation is carried out as to the appointment of a 
permanent President who would naturally be able to exercise greater supervision 
over, and take a larger share in, the management and details of the administration, 
we think that the salary suggested will be sufficient. 

We are of opinion that the position of the Examiner of Accounts and Auditor 
should be strengthened, and that his salary should be increased to £450. This officer, 
who is now paid at the rate of £350 per annum, audits the whole of the books and 
accounts and checks the work of the Accountant and Cashier, and should not be 
placed in an inferior position. It should be made clear that he has a complete and 
independent authority, subject only to the control of the Board. 

The responsibilities and duties attaching to the position of Assessor are also 
heavy, and considering the special experience required for their proper discharge 3 we 
think that this officer is entitled to a salary of at least £450 per annum. 

We do not feel called upon to make any further reference to individual 
officers : the Staff as a whole may be considered as a satisfactory one, while the 
individual salaries are certainly not fixed at an extravagant rate. 

Relations 



Relations between the Engineering Staff and the Public "Works 

Department. 

Prom the evidence of Mr. Smail (vide pp. 27-28) it will be seen that our 
attention lias been drawn to what may be termed a want of co-operation in some 
details between the Engineering Division of the Board and the Sewerage Construction 
Branch of the Works Department. In reference to this matter, which is one of 
importance, having regard to the question of economy in carrying out the sewerage 
schemes, the Engineer for Sewerage Construction in the Works Department has 
given certain explanations, which will be found on pp. 35-3G of the evidence. 
Your Commissioners learn that the matter has subsequently been prominently 
brought under the attention of the Honorable the Minister for Works, who has 
called for a report on the subject, and we have no doubt but that a satisfactory 
arrangement will be arrived at. 



Financial BjEsults of the Board's Operations. 

The net result of the Board's operations during the year ended 30th June, 
1897, after defraying all expenses of maintenance and management, and making 
allowance for depreciation of machinery, has been a credit balance of £188,799, 
available to meet interest on the capital cost of the works. The amount of interest 
payable on account of these works is set down by the Board at £215,378, so that, 
according to their statements, there was a deficiency on the year's transactions of 
£26,579. This sum included losses incurred in supplying water to the Municipalities 
of Liverpool and Campbelltown, to the amount of £251 and £91 respectively, but 
was exclusive of a deficiency of £231 on the administration of the water supply 
works at Richmond. This last-named town is not served from the Metropolitan 
system, and the sujjply is merely administered by the Board on behalf of the 
Secretary for Public Works. The loss in connection with Bichmond will cease when 
the Board are put into the position of being able to assess all properties within the 
reticulated area ; at present they can only assess those properties actually supplied 
with water. 

According to the annual reports of the Board, there existed, on the 30th 
June, 1896, a net surplus of £53,536, which had accumulated from the commence- 
ment of operations in 1888, and deducting from this amount the deficiency of 
£26,579 on the transactions of the last working year, there would remain a net 
surplus of £26,957 at the end of June, 1897. It will be seen from the evidence 
of the President that he is of opinion that this method of presenting the Board's 
accounts, by winch a surplus which may have accrued as a result of operations 
during previous years should be taken as a set-off against the present deficiency, is 
a proper one. We think, however, that this is not a sound Avay of presenting the 
finances, because all surpluses over the working expenditure and interest will, in 
time, be largely drawn upon for carrying out renewal works, a process which must 
extend as the years pass and the works and mains decay. 

But in order to adequately show the financial results of the administration 
of the services by the Board, it is necessary to explain in what manner this 
surplus has been arrived at. The Board commenced operations in March, 1888, and 
at the end of that year it is shown, by their Revenue Account for the year 1889, that 
they had a surplus of £42,004, after defraying working expenses and meeting 
interest charges. This large surplus was chiefly the outcome of the City Corporation 
handing over to the Board arrears of rates to 30th June of no less than £55,547, of 
which £16,638 had been collected or accounted for on the 31st December; and it is 
necessary to point out that these arrears were not balanced by those existing at the end 
of 1888, because the rates then outstanding were also included in the revenue of the 
year — a practice which has been followed ever since. In commenting on the surplus 
resulting from their operations in 188S, the Board, in their first Annual Report 
(page 3), stated that " this happy state of things, it must be borne in mind, is brought 
about by the receipt of rates extending over a period of three or four years, and cannot 
be looked upon as revenue belonging to the year." This, then, was the origin of 
the surplus, and, according to the Board's system of presenting their accounts, the 
amount, at the end of 1894, had risen to £84,500, part of this increase being due to 
the unpaid sewerage rates, to the amount of £10,519, Avhich were handed over by 
278— b the 



the City Corporation, for collection by the Board, on the 1st January, 1890 ; but 
during the first six months of 1895 there was a deficiency of £9,983 ; during the 
twelve months ended 30th June, 1896, one of £20,981 ; and during the following 
working year, one of £26,579 ; leaving the net surplus at £26,957. 

Even this surplus would not be in existence if the Board had debited their 
account with interest on the total capital cost as it was known to them. On a 
previous page your Commissioners have pointed out that the total capital cost, 
exclusive of the expenditure on the new offices of the Board to the amount of 
£64,793, on which the Board debit themselves with rent, is set down at £6,262,670. 
This sum is made up of £5,396,547, representing loan expenditure by the State, with 
accrued interest on the amount spent up to 25th May, 1888 ; £385,310, liabilities 
taken over from municipalities ; £377,382,balance of the City Council Water Fund ; 
and £103,431, expenditure on sewerage works from the Consolidated Revenue by 
the Department of Public Works. On the loan expenditure of the State the Board 
have debited their account with interest at an average rate which now stands at £3 - 789 
per cent. ; and on the municipal loans, with interest at rates ranging from 4 to 6 per 
cent. ; but they have made no provision for interest on the two sums of £377,382 and 
£103,431 which make up the balance of the capital debt. It is contended by the Board 
that the sum of £377,3S2 which was debited to their capital should not form part of 
their debt, and that they should not be asked to provide interest upon it, seeing that 
it represents expenditure, from rates contributed by the City of Sydney, on works, 
buildings, machinery, stores, and lands, much of which no longer remains an asset 
of the Board. It must not be forgotten, however, that when certain remissions of 
debts were made to the City of Sydney by the State in the year 1879, it was then 
urged in Parliament, during the debates on the City Corporation Bill, that the 
Government would afterwards receive some equivalent for these remissions in the 
shape of the works and lands referred to, Avhen they came to be handed over to a 
Water and Sewerage Board to be constituted. It woidd therefore appear that the 
Board cannot be relieved of the amount of the City Council Water Fund on the ground 
alone that the expenditure was made from rates paid by the citizens, and that it 
would, therefore, be unjust to tax the citizens to provide interest on works for which 
they had themselves paid. On this point your Commissioners express no opinion, 
but merely point out that when the capital debt of the Board is fixed by the Govern- 
ment, as recommended at the close of this Report, the question of the City Council 
Water Fund will require to be decided, as they feel that there is considerable 
uncertainty on the whole question. It is desirable to show, however, what would 
have been the result had the Board debited themselves with interest on the full capital 
debt as known to them ; and it is necessary to bear in mind, as stated further on in this 
Report, that, putting the disputed item aside, the capital debt only represents out- 
of-pocket expenditure by the State. Had the Board debited their account with 
interest on the full capital cost of £6,262,670, their nominal surplus of £26,957 on 
the 30th June, 1897, would be converted into an accumulated deficit of about 
£140,000. In any case, your Commissioners think that it may fairly be contended 
that interest should be charged on the expenditure of £103,431 from Consolidated 
Revenue on sewerage works, and if this were done, and the City Council Water 
Fund ignored, the surplus would still vanish, and a deficit of between £2,000 and 
£3,000 take its place. 

It is only fair to the Board to jDoint out that they have in no way concealed 
the fact that they were not setting aside interest on the total debt, and that they 
have been endeavouring for years to induce the Government to accurately determine 
its amount. No doubt, had the Board felt it incumbent upon them to provide 
for interest other than that upon loan moneys, they would have taken steps to 
meet the deficiency by a higher rating ; but your Commissioners deem it to be their 
duty to clearly set forth the actual financial results of the Board's operations since 
its inception in 1888, and to point out that, if the Board had provided interest on the 
total capital cost of the works as at present set down, the deficiency during the 
working year ended 30th June, 1897, would have been, not £26,579, but about 
£45,000, or, excluding the City Council Water Fund, a deficiency of about £30,500. 

We are of ojoinion that no alarm need be felt on account of any deficiency 
on the water supply account, because there is good reason to believe that in the 
future the operations of the Board in this branch will become increasingly profitable. 
[ Vide Appendices E 1 , E 2 , E 3 .] 

Remedial 



Remedial Measures to stop the Annual Deficiency on the Water 

Supply Account. 

It will be seen by reference to Colonel Howe's evidence (vide pp. 7-8) 
tbat lie attributes tbe deficiency in tbe water revenue, sbown in the Board's last 
report, in a great measure to the large proportions to which the "free" water 
services have attained. Colonel Howe estimates the loss to the revenue occasioned 
by giving a free water supply to public hospitals and charitable institutions, churches 
and Sunday schools, and to municipalities for street-watering purposes, at £19,536. 
In justice to the Board, and as a matter of commercial practice, it is recommended 
that the cost of these services should be debited to a vote or votes taken for this 
purpose, and a corresponding credit given to the Board, as in the case of services 
rendered by the Railway Commissioners on behalf of other public departments. 
[ Vide Appendix F.] 

A. further loss in revenue has arisen from allowing ratepayers a, discount of 
five per cent.' for the prompt payment of rates, which during the last year 
amounted to £5,764. The working of this concession has proved unsatisfactory, 
and your Commissioners recommend that it should not be continued. 

The rates and charges levied by the Board in respect of water supply are the 
assessed rate of seven pence (7d.) in the £, of the annual valuation, and one shilling 
(Is.) per 1,000 gallons, when supplied by measure. The evidence submitted to us 
on this point shows that, as compared with those charged in other parts of the 
world, these rates are reasonable. [ Vide Appendix G.] 

Arrears op Rates and Method op Recovering same. 

At the dates of the Board's assuming control of the water and sewerage 
systems, the outstanding rates taken over from the City Council amounted to the 
large sum of £66,000, namely, water rates, £55,547, and sewerage rates, £10,519. 
Under the Board's management considerable improvement has been made in this 
respect, the amount outstanding at 30th June, 1897, being £42,455, but this 
included meter accounts, just rendered, to the amount of £16,364, and rates on 
churches, chapels, and Sunday schools, to the amount of £7,990, which were left 
in abeyance pending a final decision being arrived at as to the assessment of such 
buildings. 

Mr. Alderman Jeanneret draws special attention to the expenses to which 
ratepayers are subjected by reason of the Board adopting the practice of issuing 
summonses for the recovery of overdue rates, instead of proceeding by means 
of distress warrants under the hand of the President. This latter method, it 
is alleged, is less costly to the ratepayer concerned than process of summons ; but 
the evidence given on this point by Mr. Williams, the Solicitor to the Board, should 
be read in connection with Alderman Jeanneret's remarks. We think that it is not 
necessary for us to do more than mention this matter, as we understand it will be 
dealt with in the Amending Bill which the Secretary for Public Works purposes 
bringing before Parliament at an early date. 

Hiring- out Water-meters. 
The plan adopted by the Board of supplying large consumers of water with 
reliable meters at a fixed annual rental has worked satisfactorily, while it saves the 
consumer the first cost of the meter. The transaction returns a good profit to the 
Board, as will be seen from the statement relating thereto submitted by Mr. Smail, 
the Chief Engineer. [ Vide Appendix H.] 

Stormwater Drains, and their influence upon the Public Health. 
Complaints have been made as to the burden which has been placed upon 
the community by reason of the alleged high rates levied by the Board on account 
of the storm- water drains. In reference to this matter, it may be of interest to 
recall the circumstances which led to the early construction of these drains, and 
which will be found detailed in a minute of Mr. Bruce Smith, dated 17th September, 
1890, while lie occupied the position of Secretary for Public Works, which reads as 
follows : — 

As the Commissioner for lioads is aware, I have been considering the question of hastening on the 
sewerage works of the city and suburbs, the subject being one of the gravest concern, as so largely 
affecting the health of the citizens. After going fully into the matter, I am satisfied that Mr. Hickson 



is doing his utmost to press on with the work, but I cannot disguise from myself the serious consequence 
following the delay which must necessarily take place before these works are completed ; and I have, 
therefore, been carefully considering whether something cannot be done quickly to (in a measure) mitigate 
the evils which are constantly resulting from the want of a proper sewerage system, more especially 
as regards the western suburbs. These districts are growing with great rapidity, and the evils I 
have referred to are becoming intensified in a corresponding degree, but the scheme now being 
undertaken cannot, I regret, reach them for some years to come. It has, however, occurred to me 
that some measure of relief might be obtained by carrying out quickly what will eventually form the 
"storm-water" portion of the general scheme. At present, the watercourses which serve to carry 
off storm-waters are almost entirely in their natural state, and are the receptacles of the sewerage of 
the large populations which have settled in these suburbs, becoming in consequence a series of foetid 
pools which menace the health of the whole population. If these storm-water sewers can be at once 
constructed they can be utilised for a time for the more rapid and satisfactory discharge of the sewerage 
matter, which must of necessity, under present circumstances, find its way into them, and thus, I feel 
sure, be the means of preventing a large amount of sickness. 

"We have now an abundant water supply, the capacity of the Nepean scheme being something like 
50,000,000 gallons per diem. The normal consumption is about 10,000,000 gallons per diem, and the 
present pipe-line will deliver about 18,000,000 gallons per diem, which will be nearly doubled when the 
second pipe-line, about to be put down, is completed. Taking into account this large reserve of water, 
there can be no difficulty, I imagine, in utilising it in flushing down these proposed storm-water sewers ; 
and, indeed, it cannot, I think, be put to a more profitable use. Of course, as soon as the sewerage 
system proper is complete, these drains will revert to their intended use, i.e., channels for the conveyance 
of storm-waters onlv. One thing which must, however, be carefully avoided is, that under the term of 
storm-water sewers we are not led into carrying out what is practically municipal work, and not coming 
under the designation of storm-water sewers proper. It will, I apprehend, be easy for the municipalities 
to make temporary connections with the storm-water drains, and so render them effective for the purpose 
I have suggested. 

I therefore wish Mr. Hickson to at once take this matter into his most serious consideration. The 
surveys necessary for the work I have already authorised to be carried out. What I desire him to do is 
to push on with these, and give an estimate of the cost ; I will then do my utmost to obtain the necessary 
funds, so that tenders can be invited. Every possible endeavour should be made to carry these instruc- 
tions into effect, delay, as I have already pointed out, meaning the sacrifice of health and life. I can see 
clearly that the municipalities in these matters are almost powerless ; it is only the central authority 
which can effectually deal with them. The cost will, of course, form a part of the sewerage debt, and I 
feel convinced that both my colleagues and Parliament will bear me out in every effort I may make to 
ameliorate the serious condition of affairs which now exists in our midst for the want of a proper system 
of sewerage. I rely upon Mr. Hickson to give energetic effect to these instructions, so far as it lies 
within the scope of his branch; and I hope by next summer, at all events, a large portion of this system 
of storm- water drainage may be in operation. 

The action of Mr. Bruce Smith, it is gratifying to note, has been amply 
justified by actual results, and in confirmation of the wisdom of 'the steps taken by 
him, we invite attention to the valuable evidence and report tendered to us by 
Dr. Kendall, the Medical Adviser to the Board. [Vide Appendix J.] We quote 
the following extracts from Dr. Kendall's report : — 

The value of foul-water and storm-water sewers may be well estimated by the decrease which has 
become apparent in the death-rate in their various localities, and there can be no question at all but that 
storm-water sewers have improved the health of those localities in which they have been constructed. 

Since the construction of these storm-water and fotil-water sewers there has been a great variation 
in the earth temperatures of the various localities, and as these temperatures have an important relation 
with the disease Diarrhoea it is most satisfactory to note that the mortality from this disease has been 
reduced during the last eight years from 109 to 62 per 10,000 of the population. Although Diphtheria 
does not altogether arise from the faulty sanitary circumstances connected with defective drainage, still 
such defects tend to induce a state of health which indirectly assists in the propagation of this disease. 
The value, therefore, of these storm-water and foul-water sewers will be more fully appreciated through 
the remarkable decrease in the mortality from this disease, the death-rate falling from 5*2 in 1SS9 to 3'1 per 
10,000 of the population in 1894, and since, then, assisted by the powerful aid of Antitoxin, to '9 per 
10,000 of the population. 

The decrease of the mortality from these two diseases in those places where storm-water sewers 
only exist has been most marked, and should be emphasised. Phthisis is now considered to be a disease 
of a micro-parasitic nature, intimately connected with damp soils, and of such a character that its infection 
is capable of being transmitted by means of a specific microbe or virus. The construction of storm-water 
sewers has brought about an extension of the area thoroughly drained, thus abolishing stagnant pools, 
and indirectly improving the quality of the air. Since the installation of the present water supply and 
sewerage systems the mortality due to phthisis has greatly decreased, viz., from 16'S to 9'5 per 10,000 of 
the population. The experience of other countries has been very similar to the above, as, after the 
insitution of sanitary work, the mortality from phthisis has very considerably decreased. 

The principal disease with which the Board has had to deal in the extension of its several systems is 
Enteric or Typhoid Fever. This scourge for years past has been an annual visitor, and had greatly interfered 
with the national health, causing a mortality, the existence of which ought to have been avoided. During 
the operations which have been necessary for developing the sewerage system, it has been impossible to 
avoid stirring up into activity the germs of disease w T hich lay latent in the soil. This, however, was a 
temporary evil, which must be in the end followed by good, and clearly demonstrates the criminality of 
polluting the soil in the careless manner which is very evident in every one of our suburbs. It is to 

remedy 



remedy and prevent such pollution that the storm-water sewers prove of such value in those places which 
cannot yet be provided with a proper system of sewerage, more especially as they have turned foul creeks 
aud ditches into clean concrete channels, with a proper fall, so that there is no stagnation of slop-waters. 

Epidemics of disease will break out occasionally, notwithstanding all attempts made to abolish the 
evil, but the source of such epidemics will generally be traced to some locality where advantage has not 
been taken of the existing sewer, or where no sewer has been laid. 

In Alexandria last year there was a terrible epidemic of Typhoid Fever, chiefly in a locality where 
a sewer existed and no advantage had been taken of it ; now this sewer is fully used, and only two cases 
of this disease have been reported from that locality. 

In the Borough of Macdonaldtown, where such diseases as Typhoid Fever and Diarrhoea w r ere so 
rife that it might be called the hot-bed of disease, since the storm-water sewer has been constructed, the 
incidence of these diseases has been so reduced that this borough ma}- now be called healthy. In Eedfern 
also, which is a densely populated suburb, the construction of the foul-water and storm-water sewers has 
greatly decreased the death-rate. Eushcutter's Bay and the low-lying portions of Woollahra, known as 
Double Eay, have benefited very greatly since the opening of the storm-water sewers, as formerly the 
mortality in these districts was very high. In Erskineville (or Macdonaldtown) the mortality has 
fallen from 101 per 10,000 of the population to 48. In Eedfern the mortality has fallen from 125 per 
10,000 of the population to 44. In Waterloo the mortality has fallen from 140 per 10,000 of the popula- 
tion to 65 per 10,000. The whole of this change has taken place since the construction of the storm- 
water sewers, and, in Eedfern and Waterloo, of the foul-water sewers. 

It is not beyond the mark to state that, judging from the mortality table above, the saving to the 
national wealth through improved health has been about £110,000 per annum during the last seven 
years ; and, if we were in a position to define the table of sickness, this saving would be found to be much 
greater. 

Your Conirnissioners are of opinion that this emphatic testimony to the 
beneficent results accruing from the construction of storm- water drains furnishes 
a good answer to the complaints that have been made by some ratepayers on 
the score of alleged excessive drainage rates. It is easily seen that the expenses 
incident to diseases arising from defective drainage will outweigh the taxes which 
the citizens may be called upon to pay on account of these drains, which have 
been clearly shown to be chief factors in conducing to the improved health of the 
community. 

Financial Results from Storm-water Drains. 

The Metropolitan Water and Sewerage Act Extension Act of 1894 (57 Vic. 
No. 12) limits the maximum rate which the Board is permitted to levy in respect of 
storm-water drains to sevenpence (7d.) in the £, but, as will be seen from the 
evidence given by the President and Engineer of the Board (See pp. 19 and 29), 
this rate is in several instances much below what is necessary to render these drains 
financially profitable. 

The following table shows, inter alia, the rates that are at present levied in 
respect of completed storm-water drains, and the gain or loss resulting therefrom 
after providing for interest and maintenance charges. It will be observed that at the 
present time these drains cause a net annual loss to the Board of £1,285. 



Table Showing Financial Eesults feom completed Stokm-watek 


Drains. 








Interest 










Name of Drain. 


Capital 
Cost. 


(at 3J per cent. ] 

and Main- 
tenance charges. 


Rate in £ 
now levied. 


Revenue 
Receivable. 


Gain. 


Loss. 




£ 


. £ 




£ 


£ 


£ 


Wentworth Fark 


12,756 


646 


7d. 


696 


50 




Eushcutters Bay 


3,748 


371 


7d. 


30 




341 


Beattie-street, Balmain 


5,142 


296 


2d. 


309 


13 




Munni-street, Erskineville... 


34,802 


1,313 


7d. 


131 




1,182 


Long Cove Creek 


21,711 


1,150 j 


3d. class A. 
Id. class B. 


} 1,213 


63 




Iron Cove Creek 


34,068 


1,341 ( 


6d. class A. 
4d. class B. 


J- 1,384 


43 




Do Extension 


17,124 


599 


7d. 


550 




43 


Homebush -Creek . 


15,273 


684 


7d. 


833 


149 




North Sydney 


21,457 


1,250 


7d. 


1,213 




37 


Totals 


166,081 


7,650 




6,365 


Net loss, 


£1,285 









On the completion of the sewerage system proper the cost of these drains will 
become merged in the General Sewerage Debt. Eor the present, therefore, it will be 
sufficient to consider them as a portion of the whole scheme, the financial results of 

which 



which will he dealt with in a subsequent part of this Report. The amount of 
expenditure on storm-water drains in districts where a sewerage rate is levied, which 
has already been merged in the General Sewerage Debt, is £36,130. [Vide 
Appendices K 1 , K 2 .] 

"Western Suburbs Sewerage. 

The scheme for sewering the Western Suburbs was projected in the year 1888, 
and the works then proposed by the Government and authorised by Parliament, after 
due inquiry made by the Public Works Committee, were estimated to cost the sum 
of £1,817,896. The Committee in their report to Parliament made it clearly under- 
stood that it would be' necessary to levy a sewerage rate of 6^cl. or 7d. in the £ on 
the assessed annual values of all properties throughout the entire district in order to 
raise a revenue adequate to meet interest and working expenses. 

Taking as the basis of calculation the present assessed values of property in 
the Western Suburbs, as the scheme was recommended by the Public Works 
Committee, your Commissioners find that, in consequence of the decline in property 
values, the rate of 6^d. or 7d. quoted by the Committee would be wholly inadequate 
to meet the interest and working expenses, and that, for the area originally covered, 
the necessary rate would now be Is. 2Jd. in the £. 

This scheme, however, comprised large portions of suburbs draining into the 
northern and southern outfalls, and as your Commissioners think it might be 
desirable to look at the different areas draining to the northern, southern, and 
western outfalls, separately, they have obtained from the Engineer for Sewerage 
Construction (Mr. Davis) and the Board's secretary, conjointly, an estimate of the 
capital expenditure on the Western Suburbs system. The subjoined statement 
shows how the amount is arrived at : — 



"Western Suburbs Sewerage Scheme. 



Estimated cost of scheme as submitted to and approved by Public "Works 
Committee in 1888-1889 


n 


£ 
1,817,896 


Deduct : — 

(«) Cost of works belonging to Northern and Southern Systems 


130,272 




(b) Proportional part of Northern and Southern Outfalls 


274,000 




(c) Saving in construction of Northern and Southern Sewers 


35,221 




(<Z) Saving in construction of Western Suburbs sewers 


S7,595 




(e) Cost of works belonging to "Western Suburbs Scheme, which it is 
not proposed to carry out for some years, and which, when con- 
structed, will produce a corresponding revenue 


342,03S 


S75,126 


Add:— 

Cost of Storm-water Drains, the estimate for which was not put before 
the Public "Works Committee, but which were acknowledged to be 
necessary 




942,770 
135,000 






Present estimated cost of "Western Suburbs Scheme draining into Arncliffe 
Sewage Farm... 


£1,077,770 









The scheme as at present determined upon will, it is stated, be completed in 
about four years hence, and your Commissioners have endeavoured to ascertain what 
the financial results will then show. 

The Committee clearly intended that all property within the district should 
be subject to the sewerage rate. Upon this basis, after eliminating the areas draining 
into the northern and southern outfalls, the rate that will now be necessary to be 
levied in the Western Suburbs on the reduced cost of £1,077,770 will be Is. l|d. in 
the £. If the assessable area be restricted to such properties only as can be connected 
Avith the sewers, the rate required will be Is. lOd. in the £. 

At 



XV 



At the time the scheme was under the consideration of the Puhlic "Works 
Committee it was assumed that the rapid development which had taken place in the 
Western Suburbs during the immediately preceding years would be kept up in the 
same degree for many years to come. The Committee anticipated that the annual 
valuation of assessable properties, which was £1,460,000 in 18S7, would be, in 1889, 
£2,000,000 ; in 1894, £2,200,000, and on the completion of the scheme, £3,300,000. 

As a matter of fact, however, owing to the shrinkage in property values that 
bas taken place in recent years, the actual valuations, which totalled £1,656,842 in 
1889, have fallen to £1,478,595 for the current year 1897-8. The depreciation 
is still going on, and although it may reasonably be hoped tbat there will be some 
upward movement in values during the next four years, experience shows how 
unsafe it is to count upon any large increase in the near future. 

The ultimate financial success of the scheme is of course assured, but it will 
no doubt be found at present somewhat of a burden on the ratepayers. It must be 
remembered that the main sewers and outfall works, the cost of which forms a large 
proportion of the total expenditure, have been designed to meet the wants of a 
population twice the number of the present, and hence this generation will be taxed 
to an appreciable extent for the benefit of those who succeed them. This, however, 
is a liability which is incident to most new undertakings, and cannot well be avoided. 

As illustrating the shrinkage in municipal valuations, we desire to draw 
attention to the evidence of the Secretary to the Board, and, in view of its great 
importance, quote his remarks on this point. In answer to questions put to him, 
Mr. Holmes gave the following reply : — 

In connection with the assessed values I might state that during the last year, although the Board 
laid 55§ miles of water-mains and about 30 miles of new sewers, bringing in new districts liable to be 
rated, the total year's assessed rates were £7,500 less than the previous year's; showing that the values 
of properties were still falling. . . . Our total revenue for last year is more, but that is due to a 
large meter consumption, and garden fees, and special rates ; but the rates from assessed properties are 
about £7,500 less. 

General Sewerage Debt. 

The disappointing results shown in connection with tbe Western Suburbs 
Sewerage Scheme, considered as a distinct and separate system, have led your 
Commissioners to institute a careful scrutiny into the question of the general sewerage 
debt. The results of our investigations are of serious import as affecting the Board's 
future financial position, and, inferentially, the existing methods of levying sewerage 
rates. 

Upon the operations of the year ended 30th June, 1897, the Board admit a 
loss of £14,000, while an allowance for interest on the State expenditure from the 
Consolidated Revenue, as explained on page x of this report, would increase the 
loss to £18,000. Looking forward to the completion of the sewerage system in about 
four years from the present time, a careful estimate gives the ultimate cost of 
the works in relation to the several drainage areas, and the revenue required to 
meet interest and working expenses thereon, as follows : — 

Estimated Ultimate Cost of Sewerage System and Eevenue required to meet Interest and Working 

Expenses. 



District or Drainage Area. 


Estimated Ultimate 
Cost of Works. 


Estimated Eevenue 

required to meet 

Interest and Working 

Expenses. 


Northern, draining into Bondi Outfall 

Southern, draining into Botany Sewage Farm 

Bandwick, draining into Coogee Outfall .. 

Western Suburbs, draining into Arncliffe Sewage Earm... 

North Sydney, draining into Willoughby Outfall Works 


£ 

1,646,055 

463,332 

71,829 

1,077,770 

204,500 


£ 
83,005 
23,342 
3,624 
54,262 
10,305 


All districts combined ... ... ... ... £ 


3,463,486 


174,538 



Before specifically discussing the question of the rating required to meet the 
liabilities pertaining to these works, it may be well to lay down the principles which 
may be applied in dealing with the distribution of the debt. 

Firstly. 



Firstly. — The debt may be divided amongst tbe several districts or drainage 
areas having separate outfalls, according to the amounts expended on the works in 
such areas. [ Vide Appendix — Plan.~\ 

Secondly. — The debt may be looked upon as a whole. 

Under tbe first plan, the debt would be divided amongst five separate 
districts, as shown in the foregoing table. Dealing with the debt in this method, the 
following ratings would be necessary upon tbe present basis of assessment : — The 
Northern District, comprising the City of Sydney with its area wholly and closely 
built upon and its sewerage system completed, would require a rate of 7-|d. in the £ ; 
the Southern, Is. 2d. ; llandwick, 4s. 3M. ; the Western Suburbs, Is. lOd. ; and 
North Sydney, Is. 6Jd. 

The adoption of this plan, it is easily seen, would be certain to lead to complica- 
tions, as it would be a matter of great difficulty to accurately define the boundaries 
of the several districts in relation to the outfall works, and still more difficult to 
apportion the expenses of management. At the same time, however, it should be 
remembered that when the Western Suburbs Sewerage Scheme was approved by the 
Public Works Committee in 1889, it was clearly understood that the liabilities 
attaching to tbe scheme would have to be borne entirely by the Western Suburbs 
district. The Committee's report is emphatic on this point, as the following quota- 
tions will show : — 

27. The money required for the proposed works will have to be obtained by loan, and to that extent 
the public indebtedness of the Colony will have to be increased ; but the interest and, within a fixed 
period, the principal will be paid by the residents of the western suburbs. The general public will not 
be called upon to contribute in any degree. 

29. The method piroposed for paying the interest on the sum expended, and repaying the principal, 
is that of charging a certain sewerage rate, which will be paid by the residents of the western suburbs. 
The sewerage rate upon the cost of the works immediately bef or the Committee, £830,30-1, would be, under 
the existing Act, 6"6Sd., and under the extended period for repayment of the loan, 5T2d., but as this deals 
with only a portion of the entire scheme, and the entire scheme must eventually be carried out, it is 
advisable that the people of the western suburbs should understand what, they ultimately will be called 
upon to pay, and that, as already stated, will be 7d. or Gid. 

Under the second plan, namely, that of treating the debt as a whole, a 
general rate of lOfd. in the £, it is estimated, would be sufficient. The arguments 
in favour of adopting this principle are stated in detail in the evidence given by 
Mr. Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction. [See page 49.] 

Methods or Rating. 

The estimates given above as to the amount of rate that will be required to 
meet interest and working expenses have been based upon the method of rating in 
force at present — that is, assessing only those properties which are or can be 
connected with the sewers. But if we take a practice prevailing in other 
places, it will be found that tbe whole of ,the sewerage area is rated, whether 
the properties situated therein can be sewered or not. In such cases it is, and with 
reason, contended that every portion of the area benefits from the construction of 
such works, whether actually connected therewith or not ; that, in fact, inasmuch 
as the whole district participates in the general sanitary improvement resulting from 
the construction of sewers, it should contribute in fair proportion to meet the liabili- 
ties incurred. 

In Melbourne we find that this principle is clearly recognised, and that, 
accordingly, tbe entire metropolitan area is required to contribute to the cost of the 
sewerage works. The following extracts from a letter received by us from the 
secretary of tbe Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works — which will be found 
in extenso in Appendix L — show the system of rating adopted by that body : — 

The entire metropolitan area (which consists of twenty-four municipalities and parts of two other 
municipalities) is divided, into two sections, an outer fringe, which has been defined by the Engineer-in- 
Chief of the Board as the area which will not be sewered until a very remote period, if ever, and an inner 
area which includes all the portions of the metropolis which are to be immediately or eventually sewered. 
The existing relative valuations of areas are at present : — 

Inner area £3,975,699 

Outer area 243,035 

Parliament has provided that upon all properties in the outer area a rate of Id. in the £ is 
to be levied for a period of nine years. Upon all unsewered properties within the inner area a rate of 
2d. in the £ is to be levied for a period of nine years. Upon all sewered properties within the inner 
area a rate of Is. in the £ is compulsory so long as any rates are made upon the unsewered properties. 

Acting 1 



Acting on this, which appears to them a sound principle, your Commissioners 
have endeavoured to show a method of rating which will, in some measure, give 
effect thereto. Prom tables which have been, at our request, worked out by the 
Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, the following 
results have been arrived at, the basis being the levying a Health Rate on all 
properties alike, sufficient to meet interest on capital cost and expenses of renewals ; 
and a special additional rate on such properties as are connected with the sewers, 
sufficient to meet the expenses of maintenance and management. [ Vide Appendices 
M 1-M 7.] 

Table of Sewerage Eates required to be levied according as the Capital Debt is apportioned amongst the 
various Districts or is treated as a whole. 



District. 


General Health Rate 

on all Properties 
alike, to meet Interest 
on Permanent Works 
and annual Repay- 
ment Instalment on 
Renewable Works. 


Special Additional 
Rate on Properties 
which can be sewered, 
to provide expenses 
of Maintenance and 
Management. 


Total Rate on 

Properties 

which can be 

sewered. 


Northern, draining into Bondi outfall 

Southern, draining into Botany Sewage Farm 

Bandwick, draining into Coogee outfall 

Western Suburbs, draining into Arncliffe Sewage 

Barm 
North Sydney, draining into "Willoughby outfall 

works 
Combined Metropolitan area ... 


5d. 

9d. 

Is. OR 

9§d. 

Sid. 
6id. 


2id. 

4d. 
Is. 3|d. 

6id. 

5id. 
3d. 


7id. 

Is. Id. 
2s. 3fd. 

ls.4d. 

Is. 2d. 

9|d. 



To adhere more closely to the Melbourne plan would give the following 
results : — Taking that portion of the Metropolitan District throughout which the 
sewerage system will be extended during the next four years as the inner area, and 
levying a rate of 2d. in the £ on the unsewered properties therein, it would be 
necessary to levy a rate of lOf d. in the £ on all sewered properties, in order to meet 
the financial obligations attaching to the system. [ Tide Appendix N.] 

We do not think it comes within the scope of our Commission to definitely 
pronounce an opinion as to the merits of the several methods referred to of appor- 
tioning the sewerage debt, or as to the various systems of rating, but we deem it 
desirable to state, for the information of your Excellency, the terms of the problem 
which has to be solved. 

In thus drawing attention to the responsibilities connected with the Metro- 
politan Sewerage Scheme, we wish it to be understood that the case is presented in 
what may be considered its worst aspect, so far as revenue is concerned. Without 
indulging in over-sanguine anticipations as to great expansions in the near future, 
we cannot but think that the natural growth in wealth and population of a young 
and energetic community will, in course of time, cause the burden of taxation upon 
the individual taxpayer to be lightened. At the same time it must be borne in mind 
that the capital debt will most probably be increased to an appreciable extent by the 
proposed new legislation referred to in the two following paragraphs of this Report, 
and that such increase will necessitate a corresponding increase in the amount of 
the rate. 

Board's Proposed Amending Bill. 
The Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, in view of the necessity 
which exists for taking steps which will in some measure arrest the recurring defi- 
ciency in the sewerage revenue, has drafted an amending Bill for the consideration of 
the Secretary for Public Works, with a view to its submission to Parliament. This 
Bill contains, inter alia, provisions for definitely fixing the capital cost of all water 
supply, sewerage, and drainage works now or to be vested in the Board, and for 
levying such rates as will be necessary to raise a revenue sufficient to meet the 
interest on capital cost and all maintenance, renewal, and working expenses. As it 
has already been made clear that, while the existing maximum water rate of Is. in 
the £ is amply sufficient to meet all obligations in respect of the water works debt, 
the sewerage rate will be inadequate for its purpose, the Board proposes to obtain 
Legislative authority to raise the maximum sewerage rate to be levied in the Western 
Suburbs and North Sydney Districts from Is., as at present, to Is. 7d. in the £. 

Capital 
278— o 



XVU1 

Capital Debt of Board. 

The capital debt for which the Board will become liable under the provisions 
of the Amending Bill, will comprise all amounts expended in the purchase or 
acquisition of land, and on the construction of all works in connection with water 
supply, sewerage, and drainage, together with interest at the rate of 3^ per cent, per 
annum, calculated from the dates of expenditure up to, say, 30th June, 1897. Prom 
these amounts will be deducted the excess of revenue over working expenses paid by 
the Board into the Treasury ; but even when this is taken into account it is certain 
that, when the capital cost has been thus ascertained, it will be found to exceed 
the amount of £6,262,670, which the Board now adopts as the amount of its Capital 
Debt, and which, speaking generally, represents merely the out-of-pocket expenditure 
of the Government. 

"We think that the correct amount of the Board's capital debt, compiled on 
the basis provided in the Amending Bill, should be ascertained, as quickly as possible, 
and that, in the meantime, the proposals of the Board as to' obtaining increased 
rating powers should be acceded to. 

Summary of Becommendations. 

In conclusion, we beg to sum up the recommendations we make in this 
Beport : — 

1. That the number of members of the Board be reduced from seven to three, 

namely, a President, appointed by the Governor-in-Council, one member 
elected by the City Council, and one by the suburban Municipal Councils 
conjointly. 

2. That the position of President be made a permanent one, subject to good 

behaviour, and that the salary attaching to the position should be £1,000 
per annum. 

3. That the fees payable to the other members of the Board be at the rate of 

£3 3s. per sitting, the total amount payable to any one member during the 
year being limited to £150. 

4. That the annual salaries of the Secretary and Assessor be raised to £500 and 

£450 respectively. 

5. That the position of the Pxaminer of Accounts and Auditor be made an 

independent one, subject only to the control of the Board, and that his 
salary be increased to £450 per annum. 

6. That the practice of the Board in allowing a discount of £5 per centum on 

account of the prompt payment of rates be discontinued. 

7. That the Board be reimbursed for the cost of those water services which are 

now rendered free. 

8. That steps be taken as soon as possible to furnish the Board with a correct 

statement of its capital debt. 

In closing our Beport we desire to state that our colleague, Mr. T. A. Coghlan, 
left the Colony shortly after the work of the Commission began, and consequently 
had not an opportunity of acting except during the first sitting. We also desire to 
bear testimony to the efficient service rendered by Mr. J. Johnston, the Secretary of 
the Commission. 

"We have the honor to be, 

Your Excellency's most obedient Servants, 



Jas. Johnston, Secretary. 

Sydney, 14th October, 1897. 



J. BABLING, 

President. (e.s.) 

GEO. A. WILSON. (l.s.) 

JAMES POWELL. (l.s.) 



ROYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND SEWERAGE 

BOARD. 



MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. 



MONDAY, 15 MARCH, 1897. 
The Eoyal Commission appointed to make a diligent and full inquiry into the management of the Board 
of Water Supply and Sewerage, incorporated under the provisions of the "Metropolitan Water and 
Sewerage Act of 1880," and to report whether, and if so by what means, that Department can be 
placed upon a more efficient and economical basis, met in the Board Boom of the Public Service 
Board at 12 o'clock noon. 

Members Peeseut : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J. P., President. 
G-eorge Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. Timothy Augustine Coghlan, Esq., J. P. 

Colonel Thomas Bowe, President of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, attended. 
The President announced the object of the inquiry, and that Sir. James Johnston would act as 
Secretary. 

The Commission was read "by the Secretary. 

Colonel Thomas Bowe, President of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, was 
sworn and examined. 

The Commission, at 1245 p.m., adjourned sine die. 



FRIDAY, 14 MAY, 1897. 

The Commission met in tlie Board Boom of the Public Service Board at 10 o'clock a.m. 

Membees Pbesent : — 

Joseph Barling, Esq., J. P., President. 

George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed. 

The President announced that since the Commission had been issued, James Powell, Esq., J. P., had 
been added to the Commission. 

The Secretary read the following correspondence : — 
Letter dated 6th May, 1897, from the Principal Under Secretary, transmitting an instrument under 
the hand of His Excellency the Governor, with the advice of the Executive Council, extending 
the term of the Commission for a period of three months, from the 4th instant. 
Letter from the Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, dated 23rd 

March, 1S97, transmitting Eeturns asked for by the Commission. 
Letter from Mr. Alderman Jeanneret, dated 29th January, 1897, expressing a desire to give evidence 
before the Commission. 
The correspondence was received. 

Colonel Thomas Bowe, President of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, was 
further examined. 

The Commission at 12'30 p.m. adjourned sine die. 



THURSDAY, 20 MAY, 1897. 
The Commission met in the Board Boom of the Public Service Board at 12"30 p.m. 
Members Peesent : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J.P., President. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. | James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed. 
The Secretary read the following correspondence : — 
Letter dated 15th May, 1897, from William S. Cortis, M.D., asking whether the condition of the 
water supplied by the Board was a subject which came within the scope of the Commission's 
inquiry. 
Letter dated 19th May, 1897, from Mr. George Stone offering his services as a water analyst. 
The correspondence was received. 

Alderman Isaac Ellis Ives, Mayor of the City of Sydney, and Alderman Charles Edward Jeanneret 
were sworn and examined. 

Tie Commission at 3'15 p.m. adjourned until 10 o'clock on Tuesday, 25th April. 

TUESDAY, 



XX 

TUESDAY, 15 JUNE, 1S97. 

The Commission met in the Board Boom of the Bublic Service Board at 10 o'clock a.m. 

Members Beesext :— 

Joseph Barling, Esq., J.B., Bresident. 

George Alexander "Wilson, Esq., J. P. James Powell, Esq., J. P. 

The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed. 

Colonel Thomas Bowe, Bresident of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, was 
further examined. 

Thomas Robert Steel, Accountant to the Bublic Works Department, was sworn and examined. 
The Commission at 12 o'clock noon adjourned until 10 o'clock a.m. on Thursday, 17th June. 



THURSDAY, 17 JUNE, 1S97. 

The Commission met in the Board Boom of the Bublic Service Board at 10 o'clock a.m. 

Membees Beesent : — 

Joseph Barling, Esq., J.B., President. 

George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J. P. James Powell, Esq., J. P. 

Alderman Isaac Ellis Ives, Mayor of Sydney, was further examined. 
The Commission, at 10'30 a.m., adjourned sine die. 



WEDNESDAY, 30 JUNE, 1897. 
The Commission met in the Board Room of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board at 

230 p.m. 
Membees BEESENT : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J.B., Bresident. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.B. James Bowell, Esq., J.B. 

"William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, was sworn and 
examined. 

The Commission then proceeded to inspect the books and system of working of the Examiner and 
Auditor's Branch. 

The Commission, at 4 o'clock p.m., adjourned sine die. 



TUESDAY, 10 AUGUST, 1S97. 



The Commission met in the Board Room of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board at 

10 o'clock a.m. 
Membees Beesent : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J.B., Bresident. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.B. James Bowell, Esq., J.B. 

John Moore Smail, Chief Engineer to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, was 
sworn and examined. 

Melbourne Green, Accountant, and Thomas Kennedy, Examiner of Accounts and Auditor, to the 
Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, were called and examined. 

Herbert James Beaumont, Assessor to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, was 
sworn and examined. 

The Commission, at 1215 p.m., adjourned until 10'30 a.m. on Wednesday, the following day. 



WEDNESDAY, 11 AUGUST, 1897. 
The Commission met in the Board Room of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board at 

1030 a.m. 
Membees Beesent : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J. P., President. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J. P. James Powell, Esq., J. P. 

The Commission, accompanied by Mr. J. M. Smail, Engineer to the Metropolitan Water Supply and 
Sewerage Board, proceeded to inspect the offices of the Engineering Branch, Mr. Smail explaining the 
system of working and the duties of the various officers. 

The Commission, at 11*40 a.m., adjourned until 10 o'clock a.m. on Thursday, the following day. 



THURSDAY, 12 AUGUST, 1S97. 
The Commission met in the Board Room of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board at 

10 o'clock a.m. 
Members Beesent : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J. B., President. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J. P. James Powell, Esq., J.B. 

Mr. J. M. Smail, Engineer to the Board, conducted the Commission on a visit of Inspection 
to the Crown-street Bumping Station and Stores, the Alexandria Ejector Station, and the Botany Sewage 
Earm. 

The Commission, at 2"30 p.m., adjourned until 10 o'clock a.m. on Saturday, the 14th August. 



SATURDAY, 



1X1 

SATURDAY, 14 AUGUST, 1897. 
The Commission met at Kookwood Kailway Station at 10 o'clock a.m. 
Members Present : — 
George Alexander "Wilson, Esq., J. P. James Powell, Esq., J.P 

The Commission, conducted by Mr. J. M. Smail, Engineer to the Metropolitan "Water Supply and 
Sewerage Board, proceeded on a visit of inspection to the Potts' Hill Beservoir, the Pipe-head Basin near 
'Guildford, and the Works at Prospect. 

The Commission, at 325 p.m., adjourned till 11 o'clock a.m. on Monday, 16th August. 



MONDAY, 1G AUGUST, 1897. 

The Commission met in the Board Boom of the Public Service Board at 11 o'clock a.m. 

Members Present : — 

Joseph Barling, Esq., J.P., President. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

"William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan "Water Supply and Sewerage Board, was further 
examined. 

The Commission, at 12'30 p.m., adjourned until 2 o'clock p.m. on Tuesday, the following day. 



TUESDAY, 17 AUGUST, 1897. 

The Commission met in the Board Eoom of the Public Service Board, at 2 o'clock p.m. 

Members Present : — 

Joseph Barling, Esq., J.P., President. 

George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

Joseph Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Department of Public "Works, was sworn and 
examined. 

The minutes of the previous meetings held on 17th, and 30th of June, and 10th, 11th, and 12th 
August, were read and confirmed. 

The Secretary read the following correspondence : — ■ 
Letter dated 5th August, 1897, from the Principal Under Secretary, transmitting an instrument under 
the hand of His Excellency the Governor, with the advice of the Executive Council, extending the 
time within which the report of the Commission is to be furnished for a further period of three 
months from the 4th August. 
The correspondence was received. 
The Commission at 3'45 p.m. adjourned until 2'30 p.m. on Thursday, 19th August. 



THURSDAY, 19 AUGUST, 1S97. 
The Commission met in the Board Eoom of the Public Service Board at 2"30 p.m. 
Members. Present : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J. P., President. 
George Alexander "Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

Dr. Theodore Mailler Kendall, Medical Adviser, and Henry Sydney "Williams, Solicitor, to the 
Metropolitan "Water Supply and Sewerage Board, were sworn and examined. 

Melbourne Green, Accountant, and Thomas Kennedy, Examiner of Accounts and Auditor, to the 
Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, were recalled and sworn as to the correctness of the 
evidence given before the Commission on 10th August. 

The Secretary read the following correspondence from the Secretary to the Metropolitan "Water 
Supply and Sewerage Board : — 

Letter dated 12th August, 1897, transmitting certain returns asked for by the Commission. 

Letter dated 13th August, 1897, transmitting return showing arrears of rates owing by officers 
of the Board. 

Letter dated 17th August, 1897, transmitting list of proposed increases to salaries of officers. 
Letter dated 17th August, 1897, stating that the members of the Board did not desire to give any 
evidence before the Commission. 

The correspondence was received. 

The minutes of the previous meetings held on the 14th, 16th, and 17th August, were read and 
confirmed. 

The Commission resolved, on the motion of Mr. "Wilson, seconded by Mr. Powell, that they now 
proceed to consider the evidence given in their inquiry, with a view to the preparation of their report to 
His Excellency the Governor. 

The Commission at 4 o'clock p.m. adjourned sine die. 



FRIDAY, 3 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 

The Commission met in the Board Eoom of the Public Service Board at 3 o'clock p.m. 

Members Present : — ■ 

Joseph Barling, Esq., J. P., President. 
George Alexander "Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

The Commission considered their report to His Excellency the Governor. 
The Commission at 415 p.m. adjourned until 215 p.m. on Monday, 6th September. 



MONDAY, 



MONDAY, 6 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 
The Commission met in the Board Room of the Public Service Board at 2'15 p.m. 
Membees Present : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J.P., President. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J. P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

Mr. William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board was- 
further examined. 

The Commission at 3'15 p.m. adjourned sine die. 



THURSDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 
The Commission met in the Board Room of the Public Service Board at 12'50 p.m. 
Membees Present : — 
Joseph Barling. Esq., J.P., President. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

Mr. William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board was 
further examined. 

The Commission at 115 p.m. adjourned sine die. 



MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 

The Commission met in the Board Room of the Public Service Board at 2'15 p.m. 
Membees Peesent : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J. P., President. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

Mr. Joseph Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Department of Public Works, was further 
examined. 

The minutes of proceedings on 19th August, 3rd, Gth, and 9th September, were read and confirmed. 
The Commission at 3'30 p.m. adjourned until 2T5 p.m. on Wednesday, 15th September. 



WEDNESDAY, 15 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 

The Commission met in the Board Room of the Public Service Board at 2'15 p.m. 

Membees Peesent : — 

Joseph Barling, Esq., J. P., President. 

George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

Mr. Joseph Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Department of Public Works, was further 
examined. 

The minutes of proceedings on 13th September were read and confirmed. 

The secretary was instructed to communicate with the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of 
Works respecting the system of sewerage rate adopted by that Board. 

The Commission further considered their report to His Excellency the Governor. 

The Commission at 3'30 p.m. adjourned until Monday, 20th September, at 2'15 p.m. 



MONDAY, 20 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 

The Commission met in the Board Room of the Public Service Board at 2"15 p.m. 

Membees Present : — 

Joseph Barling, Esq., J.P., President. 

George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

Mr. Joseph Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Department of Public Works, and 
Mr. William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, were further 
examined. 

The Secretary read the following correspondence : — 
Letter dated 17th September, 1897, from the Secretary of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of 
Works, respecting the system of levying Bewerage rates adopted by that Board. 
The correspondence was received. 

The Commission further considered their report to His Excellency the Governor. 
The Commission at 3'30 p.m. adjourned sine die. 

THURSDAY, 



THURSDAY, 1 OCTOBER, 1897. 

The Commission met in the Board Boom of the Public Service Board at 11 a.m. 
Membees Present : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J. P., President. 
G-eorge Alexander "Wilson, Esq., J. P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

Mr. William Holmes, Secretary" to the Metropolitan "Water Supply and Sewerage Board, was 
further examined. 

The Commission at ll - 45 a.m. adjourned sine die. 



THURSDAY, 14 OCTOBER, 1897. 
The Commission met in the Board Eoom of the Public Service Board at 3 o'clock p.m. 
Membees Present : — 
Joseph Barling, Esq., J. P., President. 
George Alexander Wilson, Esq., J.P. James Powell, Esq., J.P. 

The minutes of proceedings on 20th September and 7th October were read and confirmed. 
The Commission finally adopted aDd signed their report to His Excellency the Governor. 
On the motion of Mr. Wilson, seconded by Mr. Powell, it was resolved i — 
1 That the Commission desire to place on record their high appreciation of the services and assistance 
rendered by Mr. Small, Chief Engineer, and Mr. Holmes, Secretary, of the Board ; by Mr. Davis, 
Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Department of Public "Works ; and by Mr. Martin, 
Assistant Statistician, in checking the statistical portion of the Commission's Eeport." 
The minutes of proceedings were read and confirmed. 
The Commission at 4 o'clock a.m. adjourned sine die. 



LIST OF WITNESSES. 



PAGE. 

Thomas Rowe, President of Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board 1-8, 12-20 

Isaac Ellis Ives, Mayor of Sydney 9, 20-21 

Charles Edward Jeanneret, Alderman of the City of Sydney 9-12 

Thomas Robert Steel, Accountant of the Department of Public Works 20 

William Holmes, Secretary of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board < "' KnJil ' rc > ' 

John Moore Smail, Chief Engineer of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board 25-30 

Melbourne Green, Accountant of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board 30-31, 40 

Thomas Kennedy, Examiner of Accounts and Auditor of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board 31-32, 40 

Herbert James Beaumont, Assessor of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board 32 

Joseph Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Department of Public Works J "51-52 ' 

Theodore Mailler Kendall, Medical Adviser to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board , 37-38 

Henry Sydney Williams, Solicitor to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board 38-40 



APPENDIX. 

Particulars respecting constitution and expense of Board A 

Specimen of the business-sheet of the Board B 

Number and salaries of Staff as at 31st March, 1897 C 

Particulars of grading of salaries D 

Statistics respecting operations of Board as at 30th June, 1897 El, E2, E3 

Return showing quantity and value of water supplied free by Board during 1 S96 F 

Comparative return of water revenue, working expenses, and rates in some of the principal cities of the world G 

Particulars respecting purchase and hiring-out of meters , H 

Report by Dr. Kendall on the sanitary value of storm-water sewers J 

Return of expenditure on storm-water sewers in districts where a sewerage rate is levied K 1 

,, ,, ,, ,, in respect of which a drainage rate is not yet levied K 2" 

Letter dated 17th September, 1897, from Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, describing the system 

adopted by that Board in respect to the levying of sewerage rates L 

Table showing approximately the sewerage rate required under the different systems of rating M 1-M 7 

,, ,, the sewerage rates required on the basis of the Melbourne system of rating N 



IYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 
SEWERAGE BOARD. 



MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



MONDAY, 15 MARCH, 1897. 

$ resent: — 
JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., J.P. (President), 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq., J.P. 
TIMOTHY AUGUSTINE COGHLAN, Esq., J.P. 

Thomas Rowe, President of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, sworn and examined : — • 

1. President.'] What is your name ? Thomas Ro we. T. Rowe. 

2. You are President of the Board of Water Supply and Sewerage ? Yes. , — -^~^~\ 

3. How long have you held that position ? Eour years, in the first instance, and then there was a break. 15 Mar., 1897. 

4. You at present hold that position ? Yes. 

5. When will your term of office run out ? I think about this day twelve months, that is as to the Presi- 
dency, and not as a member of the Board. 

6. We simply ask you to attend here to-day, because we want you to furnish us with certain information ? 
I shall be glad to give the Commission all the information I can. 

7. The information which we ask for is — 

(a) Return showing Board's revenue and expenditure year by year from date of inception of Board 
up to 31st December, 1896, in respect of water supply, sewerage, stormwater drainage, and sewage 
farm : — 

The revenue to be detailed under the following headings, namely ; — Assessment rates, meters, 
special fees and agreements, railways, Government institutions : (a) by meter, (b) per head of 
inmates ; miscellaneous. 

The expenditure (loans and revenue to be shown separately) to be detailed under the following ' 
headings, namely: — Administration: (a) secretarial, accountant's, and assessor's divisions, and office 
expenses ; (b) engineering division ; maintenance (repairs and wages) ; renewals (goods and wages) ; 
new works (goods and wages) ; sewage farm (including inlet house). 

(b) Percentage of working expenses to revenue, year by year. 

(c) Outstanding rates and charges : — Amount taken over from City Council ; amount of rates, &c, 
struck, year by year; amount of rates, &c, collected, year by year ; amount of rates and charges 
outstanding at close of each year. 

(d) Return showing names of present Members of Board, distinguishing those appointed by the 
Governor from those elected by Municipal Councils ; dates when their respective tenures of office 
close ; stated times of meetings ; individual attendances of members during year ended 31st 
December, 1896 ; rates of remuneration granted to Members of Board — (a) by salary, (b) by fees ; 
amount of salaries and (or) fees received by each member for year ended 31st December, 1896 ; 
total amount of (a) salaries and (b) fees paid to Board year by year, from date of inception of Board 
up to 31st December, 1896. 

(e) Return of capital indebtedness : — (a) Amounts taken over at inception of Board, and (b) amounts 
added since then, year by year, for water supply, sewerage, storm-water drainage. (Loans and 
revenue to be shown separately.) 

(_/) Return of officers and employees, classified uuder the various branches, such as — 

(1.) Engineering: — Draftsmen, field officers, inspectors and foremen, mechanics, turncocks, 
labourers. 

(2.) Clerical: — Secretarial, assessor's, accountant's. 
The particulars to be furnished respecting each officer and employee are: — Surname; Christian 
name (in full) ; age last birthday ; date of appointment ; manner of appointment — (a) by examina- 
tion, (b) by nomination, (c) by whom recommended ; length of service up to 2Sth February, 1897 ; 
break in service (from — , to — ) ; position held ; amount of annual salary received ; amount of 
allowances, fees, or other emoluments ; total amount of salary and emoluments ; description, in 
detail, of duties performed. 
You will have the kindness to prepare for us that information ? Very well, sir. 

8. Can you form any idea as to how long it will take for the information to be prepared ; — we will then 
adjourn for that time ? A week or ten days, I think. 

9. Mr. Wilson.'] I suggest that it be typewritten, and that there be six copies, so that there will be a 
copy for each member of the Commission, besides others ? We have a printer who does our work. 

10. President.] Well, as you find it more convenient. In this inquiry we invite your co-operation, 
Colonel Rowe, which I am sure you will give us ; and, if there is any information outside of what we 
have asked you for, which you think might be of service to us, we would like you to produce it; and if there 
is any statement which you would like to make at any time we shall be glad to hear you ? Well, it is a 
large establishment, and the public have various ideas about it. I shall be happy to assist in any way I 
possibly can. 11. 

278— A 



EOTAL COIMISSIOX Of! METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AST) 

11. Mr. Wilson is suggesting that perhaps you have some ideas now which you would like to put before 
the Commission ? "Well, sir. I can scarcely enter into the thing right off, but I had in my mind, when 
you were asking for that information, whether it will include all who are in the temporary employment 
of the Board. There are a good many temporary employees. 

12. Tes, everybody ; we want it to cover everything ? I will make it as full as possible. In the course 
of the inquiry the Commission will, perhaps, visit the various stations. 

13. We have come to no decision in the matter; we will see as the inquiry goes on. We shall, of course, 
visit your office, but we want to understand the whole thing first ? A room can be set apart for the 
Commission. The Board room is available, if that would do. I will inform the Commission in a day or 
two of the exact time that these returns will be ready. 



FRIDAY, 14 MAT, 1897. 

■present: — 
JOSEPH BABLING, Esq, .LP. (Bresidejst). 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq, LP. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq, J.P. 

Thomas Rowe, President of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, further examined : — 

T. Eowe. 14. Presidents] How many meetings were held during the year ended 31st December, 1S96? One every 

' — " — — -» week, with some extra meetings. There were 61 altogether. Tou have a copy of this return, showing 

11 May, 1S97. that I attended 60 meetings, Mr. Taylor attended 57, Mr. Mansfield 54, Mr. McPherson 44, Mr. Buckle 

55, Mr. Davis, 57, and Mr. Ahearn 45. [Vide Appendix.'] 

15. At what rate are the members paid ? £250 per annum. There are fifty-two weeks in the year, and 
that is distributed over the fifty-two weeks ; about £4 16s. a week ; but they are paid by fees at £5 per 
week for one or more meetings, not to exceed £250 per annum. 

16. If you will look at the return you will see there is a discrepancy between the number of meetings 
run out at £5 a meeting and the actual amount paid. We would like that explained. Tou are paid at a 
fixed salary? Tes. 

17. Mr. Taylor attended 57 meetings, which would run out at £285 at £5 a meeting, but he has been 
paid only £245. Tour explanation is that he cannot be paid more than £250 ? Tes. 

18. But he has only had £245. Then there is Mr. Mansfield, who has been paid £240 for 54 meetings, 
which at £5 would" be £270 ; Mr. McPherson, £195 for 44 meetings, which at £5 would be £220 ; Mr. 
Buckle attended 55 meetings, which at £5 would be £275, but has only been paid £240 ; Mr. Davis was 
present at 57 meetings, coming to £285, but he has been paid £250, which is right, and Mr. Ahearn is 
paid £190 for 45 meetings, which at £5 would be £225. Is there any reason for that discrepancy ? 
There may be two or three meetings held in one week, but they would only be paid £5 for that week, 

. whether they attended one meeting or three. 

19. The explanation apparently is this, that however many meetings may be held in one week, you only 
pay £5 for that week ? Tes. 

20. So that these figures, 57, 54, 44 do not necessarily mean 57 weekly meetings, 54 weekly meetings, 
and so on ? No ; there may be two in one week. We also visit various works, but they are included in 
the same pay. I have a return here of visits made since the 1st January, 1896. [Vide Appendix.] 

21. These gentlemen are not paid anything for these visits other than the £5 per week ? Nothing what- 
ever ; and they have other duties besides Committee meetings, receiving deputations, interviewing the 
public, visits of inspection to works, etc. 

22. Are expenses allowed? Tes; actual expenses of visits. 

23. What has been the cost of these expenses ? I will have to get that for you. 

24. What has been the total cost of the Board from the date of inception in 1S8S, to 31st December, 
1896 ? £17,579 12s. 2d. 

25. My colleagues are anxious to know the cost of each of the visits you have mentioned, and the items ? 
We will furnish the information. 

26. How often does the Board meet ? Once a week ; on Wednesday mornings. 

27. How long do the meetings generally last ? About two hours. 

28. What is the nature of the business dealt with by the Board ? 1 should like to hand in one of our 
business papers. This will explain the whole matter. This is a system introduced within the last six 
months. There are forty-one items on this paper. [Vide Appendix.] 

29. What are the duties of the President, as distinct from the members ? The general administration of 
the Department ; the responsibility, of course, of the properties entrusted to the Board ; to be present at 
all meetings, to receive deputations, attend on Minister and Under-Secretary when required, and receive 
the public generally throughout the day. Bead, note, and approve of all important letters and documents 
from the Secretary, see various officers of Department in consultation, approve of all expenditure over £5 
up to £20, which is afterwards approved by the Board. Examine all cash books, and check all tea books. 
Approve all requisitions for stores and goods of all kinds. Approve of all credits ; attest all accounts. 
Credit for all lands divided where assessment is altered, lands cut up, houses pulled down or burned down. 
These things cause the assessments to be changed. Sign all vouchers for payment, and, of course, all 
cheques for wages, transfers, and for contracts, receipt vouchers, check cash ledger and cash books, and 
medical reports on officers. Deal with all officers who are brought before me charged with any wrong 
conduct; suspend them, &c, for the time-being. Periodical visits round the department itself; inspect 
books ; attend all inquiries on improvements that might possibly be made in the books or the mode of 
conducting the business. Then 1 visit the catchment area, which I have been over twice, which no other 
member of the Board has done ; and I have brought about some very good improvements there for the 
benefit of the purity of the water. That catchment area runs right away to the Bulli mountains. I visit 
also all the important works under the Board, and control all the workmen. I also visit works in course 
of construction with the Engineer. I jotted these down last evening as some of the duties. 

30. How often do you attend ? Every day. 

31. 



SEWEEA&E BOARD — MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. i 

31. And how much of your time is devoted daily to the Business of the Board ? It varies very much. I T. Eowe. 
sometimes go there about 10, but my proper time is 11 ; and I frequently remain there until 1, and have s—*—~^. 
been there till 2, and again in the afternoon. I am always in attendance when wanted, and if required a l<t May, 1897 
clerk can call upon me in my office if necessary. There has never been any delay in business, no errors 
whatever, and never a paper left unattended to when I leave the office. I remain until the business is 

done. 

32. May that be said to occupy about half your time? I think it occupies very much more, if I take 
those visits into consideration. Of course I do not know the average, but I have the weight of responsi- 
bility for the institution on my mind, not only while I am there, but constantly on my mind. 

33. I think you are allowed to carry on your private business as well ? Yes. 

34. Do you visit all the works in progress ? Not all the works, for that would mean very small works. 
All the important works that it is necessary for me to see I visit ; but I do not consider it a part of my 
business to visit every work during its progress. 

35. Then the responsibility is left to the engineer, and is not shared by you at all ? Not all the works, 
certainly. 

36. Tou hold him responsible for the carrying out of the works ? Certainly. "We would very quickly 
come down on the engineer if anything were wrong, because the Board is composed of very competent 
men, and the engineer is constantly in consultation with me in, regard to works in progress. 

37. That is Mr. Kmail ? Yes. 

38. And he is competent ? I think he is an excellent officer. 

39. You do not share the responsibility with him ? Naturally the President of the Board looks to the 
officers of the Department, and these things are brought before the Board and discussed ; and, if neces- 
sary, we have Mr. Smail before the Board. Of course I am not an engineer, but I know the whole of the 
works ; and my long experience — getting on for thirty-five or forty years — naturally gives me a grip of 
the whole of the subject. I take a deep interest in the works, and consult with him in these matters. 

40. You look upon yourself as the responsible administrative head, and you hold the engineers responsible 
just the same as the Minister of a public Department would hold his engineers responsible ? Yes, and 
then, of course, my general experience would come in, in enabling me to discuss with the engineer all these 
points. I take it as a part of my duty that what I know of water and sewerage and sanitary matters in 
general shall be brought to bear, and I discuss and consult with the engineer, but do not profess to be an 
engineer. 

41. For professional work you hold the engineers responsible ? Yes. 

42. What supervision do you exercise over the staff ? The same kind, through the secretary, as the head 
of a Department. 

43. Do you visit the various branches of the Department, and see the work of each officer ? I have gone 
round the whole of the Department, and talked over the books and other matters with the secretary and 
principals of Department as to improvements, &c. 

44. I presume all the principal officers are known to you ? Yes. 

45. You are personally cognisant of the work they carry out, and the way in which it is done ? Yes, I 
have endeavoured to look into the whole of it, and have brought about improvements. 

46. Do the other members of the Board exercise any supervision over the office staff? None whatever, 
with the exception of at the Board meetings. I canuot say that they have not gone into any of the 
departments. They may have done so much, but we have a staff committee composed of the Vice-President 
(Mr. Taylor), Mr. Davis, and myself. All staff appointments come before that committee, and they 
recommend to the Board as to who shall be employed, and the remuneration to be given. 

47. They then take the position of an appointment committee, and deal with appointments only ? Yes, 
and with promotions as well ; the whole thing generally. 

48. Do they exercise any supervision over the actual carrying out of the work of the staff ? No, I think 
not. 

49. Is that left to yourself and the secretary ? Yes. 

50. Or the engineers as the case may be ? The heads of branches. I consult with them as well with 
reference to all these matters. 

51. Now, coming to the staff itself, I understand that Mr. Trevor Jones is employed by the Board ? Yes. 

52. His name does not appear in the list ? I believe that is so ; that is an omission. He is not 
permanently employed, he is only engaged on a certain class of work which we want an expert to see to, 
but his duties will come to an end altogether soon, at the end of May. 

53. What works was he employed on ? Works at North Shore and the catchment area. 

54. Do you mean defining the catchment area ? Yes ; it had never been properly defined. I found it 
was a very uncertain matter, and he was started on that. 

55. Do you mean he has been engaged in making a map of the catchment area ? He has done so, and 
employed some considerable time in reporting on the catchment area and defining its boundaries. 

56. Has he been engaged in any other work ? Yes, at the North Shore water works, taking levels and 
supervising works over there. 

57. Taking levels in connection with the reticulation scheme ; — you supply North Shore from Chatswood ? 
Yes, Wahroonga, Chatswood, and Gordon. 

58. You have a high service reservoir at Chatswood ? Yes, two steel reservoirs. 

59. Supplied from Eyde ? Yes. 

60. Pumped from Eyde to the high service reservoirs at Chatswood ? Yes. 

61. Do these two reservoirs supply the whole of North Shore ? Yes. 

62. Has Mr. Jones been engaged in running the levels, and so on ? Not in connection with those two. 
It has been a later work than that. We have been extending the water to Hornsby and other places, 
pumping back again from Chatswood to Hornsby. 

63. Have you any reservoir at Hornsby? At Wahroonga and at Eyde, on the Eyde Heights. 

64 Then you have two steel reservoirs at Chatswood, one at Eyde Hill, and another at Wahroonga ? 
Yes ; but that is not a steel reservoir at Wahroonga. It is a buckled plate tank that was formerly at 
North Shore, and we have ordered a steel reservoir for Wahroonga. 

65. The Wahroonga reservoir supplies Hornsby ? Yes. 

66. Has Mr. Jones been engaged in the engineering works in connection with these extensions ? Yes ; 
and Beecroft included. He has been the engineer assisting, and reporting to the engineer, Mr. Smail. 

67. 



ROYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 



T. Kowe. 67. You found it absolutely necessary to take him on for this work. Tes. 

^— l ^~\ 68. The staff was not large enough to admit of it being done ? He was employed to make the surveys 
14 May, 1397. for those works. 

69. He had nothing to do with the engineering works ? I think not. 

70. "What salary was he paid? He was paid £1 a day, but of late he has been getting 15s. Tou must 
remember that this man was getting £800 a year at one time as the engineer to the Board, and lost his 
position principally through defective eyesight, nothing more. The Board naturally sympathised with him, 
and as his eyesight had improved and he was disengaged and competent for the duty, he was employed 
temporarily. He served both the Corporation and the Board for a number of years, and now suffers 
from an affliction. He is a man of considerable ability and extensive knowledge of the whole of the 
engineering works, and it was advisable to hold on to him and obtain his assistance in many ways. 

71. His eyesight was not sufficientlv impaired to prevent him performing the works allotted to him ? 
]N~o ; and I have known him to do works which have saved £75,000, the interest on which would amount 
to nearly £3,000 per annum. 

72. He is now doing temporary works which will be completed at the end of this month ? Tes. 

73. Is his eyesight sufficiently good to enable him to do the surveying work now? Well, I presume he 
would perform the duty with difficulty to himself. I have never questioned him upon the matter, but he 
can see about and can take levels, there is no doubt about that, but his eyesight for office work is impaired. 

74. As a matter of fact the engineer would know T whether the work was right or wrong? Tes; as a 
surveyor in the field he always has his assistant and chain-men. 

75. Analysing the return, it appears that you have 444 officers at an annual total cost of £68,622 ; — is this 
correct ? There is a difference in the figures — £70,622. 

76. If vou look at the return [Vide Appendix] you will see that you have got 451 officers at a total of 
£70,622 ? Tes, including the Board. 

77. In my question I took off the seven members of the Board at £2,000, and that brings it down to 
£6S,622 ? Tes. 

78. It would apjjear that the appointments of the existing staff were made up as follows : — 





Transferred from 


Selected by Board after- 


Appointed on 


Division. 


Government 
or City Council. 


Public 
Advertisement. 


Competitive 
Examination. 


personal 
recommendation. 




o 
1 

8 
S2 
55 


4 

1 

3 


7 

14 
26 

7 
IS 


9 




9 




34 


Engineer, Water Supply 


35 
129 










148 


8 


7° 


216 













Tes ; but there is a little variation in the figures. 

79. "Would the totals be correct so far as the Secretary's, Accountant's, Assessor's, and the Engineer's 
for "Water and Sewerage were concerned — 216 appointed on personal recommendation? There are 444 
in the Secretary's, Accountant's, Assessor's, and Engineer's. 

80. Of the 216 officers appointed on personal recommendation I see that Alderman Graham recommended 
13; Alderman Lander, 11; Alderman Palmer, 10; Alderman Toung, 5; Alderman Buckle, 4; Alderman 
Taylor 4 ; Alderman Davis, 2 ; and Alderman Ahearn, 1. Tou recommended 17 ; the Engineer, 117 ; 
Mr. Bennett, 2; Mr. Darley, 2; Mr. Anderson, M.L.A., 2 ; Mr. Wakeford, 2; and various people, 24. 
Put together there are 444 officers and men ? Tes. 

81. Are you prepared to- say, from your own personal knowledge or from inquiry, that they are required ? 
I do not know of anyone who is not required of my own personal knowledge. We are very careful about 
taking on men, and we have kept down the charges as much as possible. There have been no men taken 
on of late, and the work is increasing constantly. Take the waste water inspectors — there are nine of 
them — and there were nine of them in the City Council years ago, doing perhaps less than half the work 
that these men are now doing. The work is increasing every month, and yet we are keeping down the 
number of hands as much as possible. 

52. Then you think you could say that every one of these officers and men is required ? I am con- 
stantly making inquiries upon that point. With reference to the appointment of these men, I think 
it is proper that I should remark that, in the early stages, especially in the first two years, when we were 
building up the Department, there was no competitive examination, and we had to take men as they 
appeared before us with personal recommendations, and it was natural that the Board would recommend 
men who had been recommended to them, and so men were taken on at every meeting of the Board, or 
almost every meeting, to build up the Department. But when we came later down, the third year, we 
commenced the competitive examinations, and there have been no personal recommendations since then. 
It was necessary to have the men, and somebody had to recommend them ; but that ceased on the intro- 
duction of our system. 

53. "We wish you. Colonel Rowe, to feel at liberty to say what you like ; anything that you think we 
should know, whether it is relevant to the questions or not, you should tell us ? When the competitive 
examinations came, then we, of course, did away with the recommendations. 

84. Do you wish us to understand that no officers or men are taken on now, except after competitive 
examination ? I do not say workmen, but officers and engineers. We feed the institution from the 
juniors, who are taken on at £25, and get an annual increase of about £15. After the examination, they 
are on six months' trial, and if they are then not recommended by the head of their branch, they are 
dismissed, but if they are recommeded, they go on until they reach £100 a year. 

85. At present it is all done by competitive examination, and the personal nomination has now ceased? 
Tes. 

86. Has that been the case long ? I think three or four years. But that does not apply to temporary 
men, such as Mr. Jones, for instance. I am now speaking of the staff. Of course, the labourers and men 
are taken on withou* ^mpetitive examination. I would like to show you the regulations. 

87. 



SEWERAGE BOARD — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. » 

87. Then so far as you are aware, your staff answers all requirements ? Tes. T ' ^owe. 

88. There is no one, as far as you are aware, in the service of the Board who is unsatisfactory ? I know /— — *— ->, 
of no one. I do know where we could improve in certain branches of the staff by putting on more clerks. 14 May, 1897. 
I know one instance where three could be put on and facilitate the business of the public very much. 

89. What I want to know is, whether the men are all satisfactory ? I think so. I know of nothing to 
the contrary. 

90. So far as you are personally aware, the whole of the staff are satisfactory ? I think so. I verily 
believe there are not two men doing one man's work any where that I know of, and I am constantly 
inquiring of each officer on that point. 

91. Tou are satisfied with all your officers as to character ? Tes. That is quite satisfactory on the whole ; 
one or two have been brought before me lately and reprimanded, and we are keeping our eyes upon them. 
There are of course always a few who misbehave, and one or two have been cautioned lately, and they are 
watched very strictly, and if they are found tripping again they will be suspended by me, but generally 
speaking I am quite satisfied with the various branches of the Department. 

92. How many officers are there who may be considered by you as unsatisfactory ? I do not know more 
than two or three at the present moment. One important officer was suspended by me and dismissed by 
the Board a few months ago. 

93. Generally the officers are satisfactory, but there are two or three whose names I will not ask you now 
who are unsatisfactory and have been reprimanded ? Tes. 

94. Are you prepared to say from your own personal knowledge that all the men now employed by the 
Board are actually required ? I think so, as far as my knowledge goes. 

95. Are you prepared to say that the rates paid to those officers and men are reasonable, taking into 
account the salaries and wages that they obtain outside ? I think they are very reasonable, and some of 
the officers are under-paid for the abilities they show. The principal officers are under-paid, with the 
exception of the engineer. 

96. But generally, as to the rank and file ? I think they are reasonable, and low in some cases. I will 
say they are fair. 

97. Do you know of any officer who is overpaid ? No. 

98. I think I noticed in your staff a Mr. Lander ? No. 

99. Is he not employed now ? He was employed temporarily as an expert to do certain work at the 
Alexandria pumping station. A foreman of works was required and he being a contractor was employed 
temporarily, but is not on now. 

100. We should like to know on what principle you have fixed the salaries ? The office is principally fed 
from the juniors, who work their way up by their own abilities. When they get to a certain stage every 
case is dealt with according to the man's individual ability to fill the position. 

101. Tou mean that the junior officers rise by increases to a fixed amount, and then have to wait for 
vacancies for promotion ? Tes. 

102. Take the salaries as a whole, what principle do you adopt in fixing the salary for any particular 
work ? I do not know that there is anything laid down in principle more than I have told you. Each 
case is reviewed first by the Staff Committee, brought before the Board, and then the man is paid according 
to the ability he possesses and the position he holds. 

103. Is there no principle of this kind — book-keepers so much, assessors so much, and so on ? We have 
it with reference to inspectors and overseers. They are graded. I have here a sheet which I will give 
you. \_Tide Append ix.~\ 

104. Generally speaking then the Staff Committee come as near as they can at the value of the work 
without having any definite principle laid down beyond value for the work performed ? Tes. There are 
those fixed salaries for inspectors and their assistants, and sewer maintenance men. These are certainly 
all regulated. Then there are the graded salaries for the junior clerks from £25 to £100. Senior clerks 
according to the value of the work performed and the ability. 

105. Are you a member of the Staff Committee ? Tes. 

106. As far as you are aware are the salaries graded according to work in each case? Tes. 

107. Do you know of any case where a special salary is paid to a particular man otherwise than for the 
work he does ? No. 

108. There is no employee who is paid a special rate for benevolent reasons ? I know of none. There 
are two old men who came over from the corporation whom it would be a pity to send away, but they are 
necessary and make themselves useful about the Department — clean up and so on. They are reduced to 
the very lowest, 5s. per day. 

109. In the event of any vacancy, what principle guides the Board in the matter of promotion ? Generally 
the next man gets the place if he is suitable. If not, of course we go down the list. If the next man is 
suitable, and recommended by the head of the division, it is carefully considered and put before the 
Board. 

110. It is on the principle of seniority combined with aptitude for the work? Tes. 

111. Before any promotion is made, does the. responsible head of the division report to the President as 
to which officer is to be promoted ? We generally consult about it, but it is the practice for the head of a 
division, in case of a vacancy, to make a recommendation as to who is to fill the position. Frequently we 
consult, but not always, because sometimes it is very distinct who it should be. 

112. Is the approval of the Board necessary before effect is given to the recommendation ? Tes, it is 
subject to the Board's approval. 

113. Have the Board ever overridden the President in such a case ? No. 

114. Any recommendation made to the Board has always been approved by the Board ? I do not 
remember an instance in which that has not beeu done. The Secretary has just refreshed my memory. 
There was a difference of opinion with reference to the appointment of a resident engineer for the 
Prospect Reservoir, and it was decided by ballot. 

115. Was that the appointment consequent on Mr. Wakeford's death ? Tes ; it was a question whether 
Mr. Wakeford, junior, should be the man, or Mr. Jacob, who had been on the works from the very 
commencement. It was advertised ; there were several applicants ; every name was discussed. We went 
to three or four ballots, and at the last, Mr. Jacob was appointed. 

116. 1 am referring more to promotions; — in this particular case you called for public applications? Tes. 

117. How many did you get ? Seventy-eight. 118. 



O BOYAL COMMISSION ON" METBOPOLITAN WATEB SUPPLY A5"D 

T. Rowe. us. Did you go over the list yourself, and then recommend to the Board who should be appointed ? It 
•— -*— ■ »s came before the Staff Committee and a certain name was recommended, but the Board afterwards 
14 May, 1897. determined that it should be advertised, after which, it was arranged that it should be decided by ballot, 
and therefore there was no further consultation, unless it was amongst the members individually. 

119. Did you, as chairman of the Staff Committee, make any recommendation to the Board before the 
ballot was resorted to ? I do not think so. Mr. Wakeford was taken on for a time during his father's 
illness, and on his death I recommended the son for the position until a permanent appointment was 
made. The ballot was afterwards carried by my vote for Mr. Jacob. I made searching inquiry as to his 
abilities from the Department for whom he had worked for many years. Things were gone into very 
thoroughly by the Board, and dealt with in the most careful manner, and it resulted in Mr. Jacob's 
appointment ; and I have no hesitation in saying he was really the best man in the number. 

120. I observe you have four officers engaged iu the issue of rate notices, but I understand you require a 
large amount of extra assistance in the preparation of these notices ; — what plan do you adopt ? Of 
late, there has been a contract at so much per hundred. 

121. Is that only recently ? About twelve months. 

122. Do you find a considerable economy result from that practice ? Evidently it is the best plan we 
could adopt, but the Board are not in love with it, and think it must not continue, because there is a sort 
of sweating arising out of it. The contractor gets a lot of juniors to write them up. "We considered it 
a very low tender, and accepted it with regret. He took it 40 per cent, under our schedule. He does 
very well out of it because he gets them to do the work very cheaply. The schedule fixed by the Board 
was : — Transcription of assessments into Board's books, per 100, 2s. 6d. ; transfer of assessments to rate 
registers, 2s. Gd. per 100 assessments ; writing rate notices, 2s. 9cl. per 100 notices. 

123. "Would that include delivery? No : that would be writing up only. 

124. How do vou deliver them? There are district clerks, who have assistants. They live in their 
districts and distribute the notices in their own districts, and are bound to do a certain quantity of work. 
So many thousand notices are given to them, according to their districts, which vary. In Sydney where 
there are crowded streets they are allotted more work than where the districts are scattered. 

125. How are they paid r £165 to £175 per annum. 

126. " District clerks and collectors, 6 at £210, 4 at £175, 1 at £165, 5 at £156, 3 at £1.30, 1 at £117, 1 
at £65." Is that correct ? Tes ; that includes the assistants, also forage allowance to six who keep horses. 

127. I see there are twenty-one of these district clerks and collectors, costing the Department £3,477. 
Apparently that is the cost of delivering these notices ? The rate notices, final notices, and summonses. 
They take money as well. 

128. If persons choose to pay them, they are allowed to take the money ? Tes. 

129. AVhat is the cost of the work that is done by contract ? £359 lis. Id. has been paid up to date. 

130. So that the cost of preparing them and delivering them will be £3,744, plus £389 lis. Id. ? Tes, 
but these men have also other work in identifying properties and dealing with other matters, and are kept 
pretty constantly going. 

131. I presume that £-^59 lis. Id. is for the half-year only ? From July, 1S96, to date. 

132. Can you tell what percentage on the revenue the cost of preparing the notices and collecting the 
rates shows ? About 3'72. The cost of rate collecting, including the salaries of clerks, collectors, 
accountants, assessors, book-keepers, and summons staff, cfcc, during the year ending 30th June, 
1896, was £9,677 which is 3'72 per cent, on the gross income of the Board, £259,843. 

133. That is merely the proportion on the cost of the staff? Tes. 

134. It does not include the Secretary's salary at all ? No. 

135. Have you compared that with the cost of doing similar work in the other cities of Australia ? No. 

136. Tou have the reports of other places ? Tes, and I will furnish a comparative statement. 

137. Before anv new officers are appointed do you obtain from the responsible head a report as to 
the necessity for the appointment ? No appointment can take place without necessity for it. 

13S. Is a new appointment initiated by the Board or by the responsible head of a division ? The 
responsible head would bring forward any new appointment. 

139. Have any appointments been made on the initiation of the Board itself? I do not know of any. 

140. What is the capital debt standing in your books on account of the water -works ? £4,205,790 13s. 8d. 

141. And the same on account of the sewerage? '£1,81S,653 12s. 6d., also £162,724 3s. 5d. for 
Stormwater Channels. 

142. And the total capital cost would be ? £6,187,16S 9s. 7d. 

143. If you refer to your report you will see that the Board charges itself with interest on the capital 
cost exclusive of an amount of £377,382, ''value of assets taken over from the City Council in 1S88, 
derivable from rates." Is that correct? Tes. 

144. I see that your return of interest on the capital cost for Sewerage since 1S90 has been gradually 
decreasing ; what is the reason of this ? The depreciation in the value of property. 

145. In 1890, interest on capital cost of Sewerage scheme was 5'06 ; in 1S91, 4T6 ; in 1892, 4'03 ; 1893, 
4-19 ; 1894, 397 ; 1895, 334 for half a year, and in 1895-6, 3'09. When you began in 1890, the interest 
on capital cost after paying expenses was 5 '06, but in the last period it is only 3 '09 ; what is the reason 
for this ? There are three reasons I think. The Board did allow 10 per cent, off for payments in a 
certain time, which I have always been opposed to. That is a loss of somewhere about £8,000 or 
£10,000 a year, but this discount has now been reduced to 5 per cent. Then there is the general 
depreciation of property ; rents are down and assessments are lower, and we are bound to take ours from 
the assessment books of the city and boroughs. And, thirdly, the capital cost is continually being 
increased by the handing over of works. There is the Centennial Park Reservoir. 

146. I am speaking of sewerage — that does not apply to the Centennial Park reservoir? I will confine 
myself to sewerage. We are constantly having works handed over, and they increase the capital 
indebtedness. 

147. The presumption is that if works are handed over they are revenue-producing ? They are, of course, 
to a certain extent, but not to affect the revenue materially. Our outlay on reticulation is lying idle, 
waiting for the main outfall. That will be revenue-producing presently. 

14S. Does the Works Department hand you over works before they are revenue-producing ? We watch 
those works, of course, and prepare our works to meet them when handed over ; and in this way we try 
to prevent any loss and to give people the advantages of drainage. . 149. 



SEWEEAGE BOARD — HIXTTTES OF ETIDEKCE. 



149. Then it comes to this, that you have prepared your reticulation works in readiness for the "Works ^ ^' 
Department main scheme, and until the main scheme is handed over to you these reticulation works are ^j^w ™,_ 
bearing no revenue, although they are costing you an annual charge on account of interest ; — when the 

other works are handed over the whole thing will he revenue-producing ? Tes. 

150. Do you charge to wording expenses the interest on capital cost of works during their construction ? 
I do not think so. 

151. Do you add it on to the capital cost? Tes. 

152. Until the works become productive the interest is added to the capital cost; — that cuts away from 
your other argument — you said that the reason the works did not pay was that they lay idle on your 
hands P It is not when under construction, but when completed, it is added. 

153. Then they become revenue-producing ; then the question comes in that the works you take over 
only produce a small revenue ? They would not produce sufficient revenue to meet the interest upon the 
total expenditure until a length of time has elapsed. 

154. Is that due to the fact that the main works are not completed, and if they were you would be able 
to reticulate a very much larger area? We are under the impression that the main works should have 
been completed long ago. I think they have been very lax in the completion of the western outfall, and 
there is an enormous outlay there. I think it has run into a quarter of a million there, lying idle. I 
cannot tell why it has been retarded. We pressed forward with our works in order to be ready when the 
outfall was completed ; but it is not completed nor handed over yet. 

155. Tou spent large sums of money in the anticipation that the main works would be finished, but they 
are not ready, and your own reticulation works are lying idle on your hands ? Tes. 

156. That does not affect the question which I asked you, for yoii said that the interest on that was not 
charged to the working expenses until the work became revenue-producing ; — supposing £150,000 were 
handed over to-morrow, would not that affect the interest on the main capital ? Take North Shore. The 
Board has very extensive reticulation works over there, but the inhabitants are not enjoying the rise of 
them at present because the outfall to receive the sewerage is not completed, and the whole thing is idle. 

157. Tou have told us before that the interest on that unproductive capital was not added to your 
working expenses ; — how can that account for the decrease of the interest on capital cost? It will still 
affect it when handed over. 

158. Tou mean that if a longer time than necessary is taken to carry out any work when it is handed 
over, it will be loaded by unnecessary interest ? Tes ; that is partly what I mean. 

159. The point is so important, I will leave it ; — we do not want to put you to any difficulty off-hand ;- — 
I will leave it, and you can look into it ? I will find out about it. 

160. Now, the same applies with regard to water supply, although not to the same extent ; — in 1888 you 
commenced by paying interest on capital, 3'8l ; next year, 378 ; then 3'96 ; then, in 1S91, 4'36 ; 1892, 
3-68; 1893, 3 ; 97 ; 1S9«, 4"05 ; 1895, 3-54; and now the last period, 3 '62 ;— perhaps you will think over 
that question ; — we want to get in the most accurate way what it means? 1 will find out. 

161. When the Board took over the water works what were the rates and charges then levied ? It was a 
different system altogether. It was so much per room, no matter how many rooms — 3s. 6d. per room. 

162. What was it per meter? I am not certain ; I think Is. per 1,000 gallons. 

163. What was the sewerage rate ? I am not aware. 

164. What were the rates which you fixed when you took over ? 6d. in the £ for water, and 7d. for 
sewerage ; Is. 6d. per 1,000 gallons by meter. It was lowered after that. 

165. What is it now? 7d. in the £ tor water, and Is. per 1,000 gallons by meter ; but then there are 
discounts allowed, and manufacturers and others consuming over 20,000,000 gallons per annum get a 
reduction. It was treated as on commercial principles that some reduction should be made where there 
was a large amount of water consumed. It only affected some of the richer people — the Sugar Company 
and the great breweries, and the railway authorities, and companies able to pay. They get the benefit, 
and the smaller manufacturers do not consume sufficient to benefit by it. 

166. How long ago did that come into force ? Pour years ago ; in 1892, I think. Tou see there it 
affected the interest on capital at once. 

167. Can you tell me how much it has affected the revenue from year to year since 1892 ? I cannot go 
into that now. I think we must have lost £2,000 from the Sugar Company alone. I was always opposed 
to the minimum charge for assessment, 10s. 

168. What is the minimum provided by the Act ? Ten shillings. 

169. Is there a maximum fixed by the Act ? One shilling in the £. 

170. Now with regard to sewerage, when you took this over what did you find as the rating ? We made 
it 7d., and it is now 7d., with the exception of the allowance of 5 per cent, discount. 

171. Did this 5 per cent, reduction make any very considerable reduction on account of the revenue for 
sewerage ? Tes. 

172. And you, as President, are entirely opposed to that ? Tes, on principle. 

173. Mr. Wilson.'] I would like to see the scale of concessions to manufacturers? It is Is. up ta 
20,000.000, and 9d. per 1,000 over that. 

174. President.^] We should like to know what firms have profited by this reduction, and to what extent r 
I will have to get that. 

175. Can you tell me what is the average rate of interest paid by the G-overnment for loans in respect 
of Water and Sewerage Works ? I am not certain. I think it is 3789. 

176. And you will observe, looking at the return, it is only in 1895 that it begins with 3'48, and in 
1S96 with 346. According to your last report there was a deficiency on the year's transactions of 
£20,9S0 17s. 9d. ? Tes. 

177. That was the year ending 30th June, 1896 ? Tes ; and the cause is given on the next page. 

178. Are you aware what rates are levied for water in the other Australian capitals? Tes; I have it 
here. [ Vide Appendix.] 

179. There is another cause of deficiency which 1 might mention here — it is the free water that the Board 
are giving away ? It runs into a very considerable amount — hospitals, churches, schools, street watering, 
and tramway watering. We have been led to go into it of late because of the drought and the dam 
having got down. It means £19,500 a year. 

180. I think we will go into that later; — can you give us information as to the rates' in the principal 
cities of Europe and America? I have handed it in in that list. 181. 



° ROTAL COMMISSION ON 1TETEOPOLITAN WATEB STJPPLT AND 

T. Eowe. 181. From the information you have supplied it would appear that the charges in Sydney are lower than 
iIm^^W ' n -M^kourne ? No ; 6d. in Melbourne and 7d. in Sydney. 

a yj '• 1S2. Can you give me percentages ? I will work them out. We have to take into consideration that 
some of these cities are supplied by gravitation, while most of our water is pumped. 

183. What has been the expenditure by the Board on new works, both for water and sewerage, since they 
took control ? Water, £620,091 5s. 4d. ; sewerage, £354,905 Ss. 3d. ; and storm-water channels, £669 19s. 

184. Of this amount, how much represents revenue-producing and how much unproductive ? We shall 
have to work them out. 

185. How much of the money you have spent is revenue-producing? All the money. 

186. While the works are going on you are spending money, but it is not producing revenue? During 
the construction only. 

187. How much of that money (£620,091 5s. 4d.) is producing revenue ? All those works were completed. 

188. Then you have not answered the question exactly ; — what has been the expenditure of the Board on 
new works, both for water and sewerage, since the Board took control ? This return is only up to 1896. 
The amount is £975,726 12s. 7d. 

189. What are the contracts in hand ? This is all loan money, and the works are completed and are all 
revenue-producing. 

190. How much money have you spent on works since you took charge, completed and uncompleted, and 
how much of that is revenue-producing; — there were certain works in progress on the 31st December 
which are not completed ? I do not think there are any in regard to water, there may be in regard to 
sewerage. 

191. Tou have not got the information ? No. 

192. In connection with sewerage you give in your return £354,965, does that include North Shore ? 
We are getting revenue from that, because we are charging storm-water drainage rates. 

193. What is the expenditure during the same period on works carried out by the Works Department 
and handed over to the Board ? I will get that. 

191. What has been the cost of storm-water drains constructed bv the Works Department and handed 
over to the Board ? £16,503 13s. 2d. 

195. Surely it is more than that? £162,724 3s. 5d. 

196. That is to the 31st of December? Yes, less what the Board has expended (£069 19s.), which I 
quoted before. 

197. What percentage of the capital cost is the revenue yielding from these drains ? That has not been 
worked out. 

198. Are the full rates allowable by law levied ? Not on all storm-water drains. 

199. What are the full rates ? 7d. in the £. They are not enforced in all cases. 

200. Can you tell in what cases they are enforced and in which they are not? *I will work it out. In 
some of the districts where there is sewerage, it will merge into the sewerage by-and-by. 

201. What is the total amount of rates and charges paid by the Government in respect of rates on public 
buildings, everything the Government pays for, rates and meter accounts ? £12,084 14s. 8d. 

202. I think you will see that it is meter £10,938 4s. 9d., and rates £12,084 14s. 8d. ? Yes ; that is it. 

203. What proportion does this Government contribution bear to the Board's total revenue ? That has 
not been worked out. 

204. What was the amount of outstanding rates both for water and sewerage when you took over from 
the City Council at the inception of the Board ? Over £66,000. 

205. What were the amounts for outstanding rates for water and sewerage at the close of your last 
financial period? I think it was £43,970 15s. lid. — consisting of Government rates, £1,182 13s. Sd. ; 
municipal, £2S5 19s. 6d. ; domestic rates, houses, £8,925 Ss. ; vacant lands, £6,048 6s. Id. ; meters, 
£L3,814 Ss. 2d.; churches and charitable institutions, £6,681 16s. Id.; compulsory drainage, 
£4,258 14s. 6d. ; plumbers and drainers, £1,156 5s. 9d. ; Eichmond Water Supply, £99 15s. lid. The 
charitable institutions outstanding is all in abeyance ; we were asked by the Minister to leave that in 
consequence of the amended Bill. You will notice that the Board's affairs have increased during the last 
nine years to twice as much as before, and the outstanding rates are considerably less than when it was 
in the hands of the City Council. 

206. How long do you allow accounts to be outstanding before taking the necessary legal measures for 
their recovery ? Thirty days after the delivery of the notice. 

207. Do you then strictly take legal action in every case to recover ? Not when the people are so very 
poor that there is nothing to take. 

208. Generally speaking after thirty days you take your legal remedy ? Yes. There are thousands of 
cases where it is not worth while to take legal steps. 

209. Where there is a chance you always do ? Yes. 

210. Can you indicate to the Commission where economies can be effected in the Department, without 
impairing its efficiency ? I have thought very carefully about that, and have no suggestions to make. 

211. Of course you have made a very important suggestion, that these rebates should not be allowed ? I 
thought that was a question of management. 

212. Is there any other suggestion you can make ? Coming to the amending Bill, if this matter is to be 
treated on commercial principles, and there are to be monetary clauses introduced into the Bill, the 
Board are of opinion that every drop of water, no matter to whom it is supplied, should be paid for. We 
have been very liberal with the water, having a good supply ; but it weighed very heavily on my mind the 
other day to see that magnificent dam down 11 feet, and no water coming through the channels. The 
catchment area was quite dry, and we were giving the city and suburbs 20 and 21 millions of gallons per 
day. It became a very serious matter how long the drought would continue, and how soon we would get 
down to the gravitation level. That led us to look into the causes of the waste of water. We are losing 
nearly £20,000 a year for water given away. The Board should charge everybody, and liquidate the 
debt within a certain period of time. 

213. Mr. Wilson.'] You think you should charge for everything you sell, the same as the Railway 
Commissioners do ? Yes. 

214. Can you give us a return of the amounts that have been taken from your supply without paying ? 
I will hand it in. 

THURSDAY, 



SEWERAGE BOARD — MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. » 

THURSDAY, 20 MAY, 1897. 

present: — 
JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., J.P., President. 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq., J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq., J.P. 

Isaac Ellis Ives, Mayor of the City of Sydney, sworn and examined : — 

215. President.] We understand that you desire to put the view of the City Council hefore us as to their I, e. j. V es. 
relations with the Water and Sewerage Board. We also understand that you will be able to make some ^-^v__^ 
suggestions which will no doubt be very valuable to us in coming to proper conclusions in connection with 20 May, 1S97. 
this inquiry 1 ? I find there are a number of resolutions passed by the Council from time to time in 
connection with the working of the Water and Sewerage Board as affecting the citizens — matters of 
importance that it was deemed desirable to bring before the Minister of the clay with reference to the 

working of the Department. I have a large number of papers to go through, and I would ask you to allow 
me twenty-four hours to look into it, and I would prefer to make a written report, and come here and read 
it and hand it to you. 

216. We are only too pleased to accede to your request, and can give you plenty of time. If you will let 
me know when it will be convenient to you, we shall be glad. 



Charles Edward Jeanneret, Alderman of the City of Sydney, sworn and examined : — ■ 

217. President] What is your name 1 Charles Edward Jeanneret. C. E. 

218. What are you ? Alderman of the City of Sydney. Jeanneret. 

219. We understand that you have a statement to make which you think, and we also, may be very useful --— — A — — -^ 
to the Commission in coming to satisfactory conclusions on the subject 1 Perhaps if I communicate to you ~" ^' S9 ' - 
the resolutions that have been passed on the subject of water and sewerage by the City Council, it may 

make it clear what their opinions are. 

220. The Mayor has been before the Commission, and he is going to make a statement on the subject for 
the Council 1 That is a very proper thing to do, but it will take a great amount of research to get to the 
bottom of it. His time is very much occupied, and these resolutions were passed before he became a 
member of the Council. [Witness read resolutions dated 25th April, 1893, 6th February, 1894, 5th April, 
1894, 20</t December, 1894, 2dih January, 1895, vide Apjpendix.] These were all passed unanimously 
after considerable discussion and investigation. Having said that, I would like to say for myself, 
as an Alderman of the City of Sydney, that I have no complaint to make as to the manner in 
which the Water and Sewerage Board conduct their executive duties ; from all, from the President 
down, I have always received the greatest courtesy, consideration, and attention, and especially from 
the Vice-President when acting as President. They have shown a very strong desire to do the most they 
can for the citizens. They, as our representatives, have tried to get all grievances remedied, and have 
succeeded in all except one great grievance, which is the persistent way in which they continue to issue 
summonses. From last year's report I see that they issued no less than 5,000 summonses against rate- 
payers. If you look at the return, you will find that officers had to go to considerable expense to get 
summonses for less than 10s. I see that the officers went to a place called Silverwater to recover four 
debts, amounting altogether to £2. As a matter of fact, these summonses are issued for the smallest 
amounts. Sometimes a matter of 10cL, involves a summons being issued. I maintain it is utterly 
unnecessary. The City Council think that, notwithstanding the advice which appears to have been given 
to the Water and Sewerage Board by their legal adviser, they have full powers to distrain, which would 
be much more effectual than summonsing. We have a proof in the effectual way in which we collect the 
city rates. We are legally advised that it is utterly unnecessary for them (the Water and Sewerage Board) 
to summons for rates. If you refer to the Act you will see that the Board have full power to levy and 
distrain for water and sewerage rates. I dwell upon this because it is a much more effective and much 
less expensive method of collecting arrears. While the Board admit that they have power to distrain, 
they object that they have not power to fix a schedule of the bailiff's and levy fees, and that no schedule 
of such is fixed in the Act. We regard that as merely an excuse. They could put in a bailiff of their 
own for that matter, even if they did not charge anything, but we maintain that the Act gives them full 
power to fix a schedule, and all they have got to do is to put it in the by-laws for Executive sanction. 
There is reason why they do not like to do it, and that is, that they do not like to run the risk of 
distraining. But that is their fault. They should have their accounts so accurately made up that there 
would be nothing to be afraid of. We (the City Council) run the risk. I am quite willing to admit that they 
are in a difficulty, but it is not an insurmountable one. The difficulty is that they get their information 
second-hand, not like the City of Sydney and the boroughs, who get their information at first-hand, and 
whose officers are responsible for wrongful information. The Water and Sewerage Board may be led into 
a error through any mistake in the name of a person, or the amount stated to be due, and may distrain 
upon a person wrongfully, and become liable to an action for damages ; but with proper care that would 
be avoided. 

221. What about the difference in the expense of their procedure and the procedure you propose? It is 
incomparably in favour of distress, because there is about 3s. or 3s. 6d. to pay the Courts for every summons. 
It used to be 5s. ; and there is mileage, which sometimes makes it come to a great deal more than that. It 
did not matter how small an amount you summoned for, there was this 5s. fee to be paid the Government. 
That included the service of the summons, but if it was a distance out there was mileage added, and it might 
come to nearly £1. The ratepayers have to pay all that, and are put to a large amount of unnecessary 
expense in addition, because they have to pay witnesses' expenses.- These witnesses cost a great deal, and 
as they are officers of the Board, they may go to the Court and earn 10s. or 20s. a day, and I suppose the 
Government get the benefit of that, as the officer does not get it. This is a very heavy tax upon the rate- 
payers. The worst of it is that so many people are summoned who have no idea that they owe any rates. 

. 278— B It 



10 EOYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WATEK SUPPLY AND 

C. E. It is a terrible grievance and utterly unnecessary. Our civic Council experience is that, when you give a 

Jearmeret. p erson notice that you are going to put a baliff in, he will corne and pay up quickly, and whereas the Water 

50 M T8Q7 anc ^ Sewerage Board has been issuing 5,000 summonses a year, the City Council recover their money 

y ' ' without issuing a single summons. The Mayor signs a sheet annually with about 500 names of persons 

who are in default, and there is a fine of 2s. or so for defaulters. If they make trouble they have to pay 

the fine, but if they pay without any trouble and have proper excuse, the tine is often written off. The 

warrants are thus reduced from 500 signed to about fourteen or fifteen that are issued and put in operation. 

The cost of collecting our rates is £1 '8 per cent, on our total income. We have a revenue nearly as 

large as that of the Water and Sewerage Board, yet we adopt none of the oppressive measures adopted 

by them. 

222. Mr. Wilson.~\ Do you think that the revenue of the Water and Sewerage Board could be collected by 
the municipalities ? I am quite sure of it, and that is what I advocate. The whole of that responsibility 
should be thrown on the municipalities. The whole of the responsibility for the interest for the debt 
should be thrown on the municipalities as provided by the Act. If you look at the debates that took place 
in the Legislative Assembly and Legislative Council on the passing of the the various Acts, you will see 
that it was never contemplated that the Water and Sewerage Board should continue to collect the rates. 
The provisions of the Act distinctly state that, on the completion of the works, they may be handed over to 
the Municipalities, who should pay the sinking fund together with the interest direct to the Government. 

223. President] There was an alternative provision in the Act? As far as the City of Sydney was concerned 
the provision was that it should be taken over, and might be by the others ; but then it was amended after- 
wards. I may be pardoned for pointing out that somebody or other attempted to introduce a clause by 
which the transfer should not take place to the municipalities unless the whole of the members of the Board 
signed a requisition to the Government concurring in such transfer. That would practically have shut out 
the possibility of doing it. It was pointed out (by Sir Alfred Stephen, I think,) in the Upper House that 
that would altogether defeat the intentions of the Bill — for any one member of the Board could block the 
resolutions for transfer. As it now stands, the transfer resolutions may be carried by a majority of the 
Board. Then, in the Amending Act, unfortunately, although the principle is still maintained that the 
transfer shall take place, the amended Acts have taken away the basis of the calculations upon which the 
division is to be made. The original Act specified the basis upon which the apportionment of the debt 
between the City of Sydney and the different municipalities should be made. 

22-1. It is not very clear how it is to be done. Have you tried to work it out 1 I have not ; but I have 
no doubt it can be done, though I would not undertake it. That is what we in the City of Sydney would 
like to see clone. We would like our apportionment of the debt, whatever it is, assigned to us, giving us 
full control of all reticulation in our boundaries, and we will pay the interest on the whole debt. In fact, 
we are quite in a position to pay the Government the money back if they like. The City of Sydney is in 
a very sound position indeed, and would have no trouble whatever in undertaking all its liabilities in 
connection with water and sewerage. There might be some hesitancy on the part of some of the suburban 
municipalities that do not understand the thing, and are sparsely populated ; but they, too, will eventually 
see that their burdens will be lightened as the population increases. We are strongly of the opinion that 
the Government can relieve themselves of the responsibility of that £5,000,000 of debt, and we are confident 
we can collect the money and pay the interest, and administer the whole thing better than it can be done 
by the Board. 

225. Mr. Wilson.~\ You have machinery, and the Water and Sewerage Board machinery conies on top of 
that ? Yes. 

226. President."] If you take it over, would you want to take over their large staff? We would not want 
many additional officers. 

227. You could do it with your present staff 1 ISTot so. We must have our own repairers and water- 
inspectors, and such people, but we would need no more ticket-servers, collectors, treasurers, accountants, 
and so on. We have a competent health officer now, but his duties would be so much enlarged we might 
want another. We could do it with very little additional expense, because we have all our buildings and 
offices constructed with a view to this. 

228. Mr. Wilson.] At present the secretary's department costs £3,758, the assessor's department costs 
£10,540, and the accountant's department costs £3,661., You could do it on much less than that? Yes. 

229. Mr. Powell.] You could take it on the present ratepapers ? Yes. Instead of having people calling 
four times a year to pay rates — twice for water and sewerage and twice for city rates — they would get it 
done in twice. It is a very great convenience to have properties in different suburbs belonging to the same 
owner registered as the Water and Sewerage Board do it, and the account rendered to the property-owner 
on one ratepaper, but the 10 per cent, reduction formerly allowed was completely thrown aVay. The people 
who avail themselves of the discount are the large ready-money people, the Government, the Railway Com- 
missioners, the banks, and all the large consumers. They send down and get the saving under the discount 
arrangements, when their cheque would always be duly sent in any case. 

230. President.] All others have to submit to the higher rate 1 And get no advantage from the discount, 
for to small people it is not worth noticing. 

231. It really meant an additional penny to the small people who could not take advantage of the dis- 
count, and the larger ones went scot free ? That is it. That discount business has worked very badly 
indeed. The sooner it is discontinued the better. Anyone might know well the bulk of the money comes 
from the large contributors, and the discount meant a big loss to the Board. 

232. Have you thought of the difficulty of the head works being outside any of the municipalities when the 
different portions passing through them are handed over ; who would have control of the head works ?■ 
The Water and Sewerage Board. It is an admirable institution, and should by no means be abolished. I 
am strongly of opinion it would be far better to have a Board of that kind for the maintenance of the main 
arteries and reservoirs, and to have control over them as now, but the detail management of the reticula- 
tion in municipalities should go to the municipalities. I venture to think, also, that the power of the 
Board should be largely extended by making them the constructors throughout the whole of the Colony, and 
the mediators between the municipalities or people and the Government. They should construct the works, 
and hand them over to the local bodies when completed, and say, " That is your proportion of this, and 
you must pay it," and should see that it is paid to the Government. 

233. 



SEWERAGE BOARD — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



in 



233. You say that the whole cost should be distributed now ratably among the whole of the municipali- jjj^. 
ties served 1 Yes, and further, that the Water and Sewerage Board should become the Water and Sewerage ^eanuere^. 
Board for the whole Colony, for the construction of works of a water and sewerage nature, and for appor- 2Q M lg9 ^ 
tioning the cost to the local bodies. 

234. Would you take it out of the hands of the Works Department? Yes. You have no end of com- 
plaints about the excessive cost of these works. The estimates are exceeded, and there is trouble between 
the people and the Government, and if they are constructed by a more directly representative body, the 
local bodies would know better about it at the start, and would have some representative people to call to 
account if the estimates were exceeded, or things went wrong. 

235. Mr. Wilson.] You would like the Board elected by the municipalities, like the Melbourne and 
Metropolitan Board of Works 1 Not wholly ; there should be some Government representative there. 
The Water and Sewerage Board is fairly representative now. If you give them control over the whole of 
the water and sewerage works of the Colony, you might have another country member or two, if you 
chose. The works should not be constructed wholly by or for the Government, but as for the ratepayers 
under Government control, the Government finding the money in the first instance, and then letting the 
people help themselves by paying for and controlling all the works in those municipal districts. 

236. President.] Would you provide a sinking fund? Yes, at about 100 years, or perhaps less. 

237. Just the same as the Hunter District Act 1 Yes. In the course of a few years, under good manage- 
ment, the water and sewerage systems would be a source of revenue to all the municipalities. The 
Government would never be able to make them revenue bearing or a profit to the State, because it would 
be unfair to ratepayers ; but they would properly become most profitable works to the municipality. There 
is a return of nearly 4 per cent., as you see in the Water and Sewerage Board's report. 

238. By the last report there is a deficit ? Certainly. I do not know exactly how they arrive at it. They 
congratulate themselves on making a higher rate of interest, and then they say there is a loss. 

239. Mr. Wilson.] They contend that they give free services, costing £20,000 ? I cannot see why they 
should give free services. Everything should be paid for. The churches should pay. Why should other 
people go free when the Government pay? 

240. President.] Your Council come in for a good share of it for street-watering, which is £15,722. That 
is not all yours, but a good proportion of it is ? There is no necessity for so much flushing and sanding on 
the wood-blocking. It is one of those things we are getting reduced every clay. Of course if the City of 
Sydney took over their liability, they would have to pay for the water, and would be economical in the use 
of it. 

241. Mr. Wilson.] Supposing the larger scheme could not be carried out through difficulties in the way, 
could this be done : the municipalities to take upon themselves the responsibility of collecting the rates at 
a certain discount ? I do not think they would bother about it. 

242. Would your Council do it ? They would not undertake it in that way. When the sewerage is 
completed, if you will apportion the debt, they will be quite prepared to take the responsibility of it. 

243. President.] The Commission will not save much by saying this man gets too much and that man is 
paid too much. We must deal with important principles to arrive at any great saving ? Just so, we, the 
aldermen, are desirous of saving the citizens annoyance, trouble, and expense, and we are satisfied that we 
can save them that, and save the Government trouble, by taking our fair share of it. We know within 
half a million what our share of the debt is, and are quite prepared to face it. 

244. If you took it over, your additional expenses would be infinitesimal, whereas now the machinery is 
duplicated ? Yes, we have our own house-to-house inspection, i&c. 

245. Is it in any way possible to have officers common to both bodies 1 No, you cannot divide the control. 

246. We have it so in the Government service. The same man may be police magistrate, liable to the 
Justice Department, and warden, liable to the Mines Department ? You are all under one head, at any rate. 

247. Mr. Wilson.] Would it do to have a municipality trust ; each municipality to collect its own rates, 
and the whole thing to be centred in the City Treasurer 1 I do not think the municipalities would agree 
to the City of Sydney exercising any control over them at all. They would not let us be chief boss, as it 
were. 

248. They would not join the trust ? I think they would separate as soon as they could. They are afraid, 
in the scattered districts, that they would have to pay more, and are very jealous of the City of Sydney m 
that respect. 

249. President.] You cannot avoid that ? No. The municipalities would soon see that they would be im- 
proving their position every year by having their own control of water and sewerage reticulation. The 
cost of all the head works, viz., the Prospect Reservoir and all the main arteries, would be ascertained, and 
the municipalities would be told, " Your proportion is so and so," and as the population increased it would 
become a more valuable asset. They would be using more water, but that would be nothing in comparison 
to the cost of the main works. They would be in a splendid position, better than the city, because the 
City cannot grow much more ; it is thickly populated now. 

250. How would it be for the Board to remain in existence and to charge you for the water consumed 1 
That is what I say. 

25.1. Not debit the capital cost to you at all, but just simply charge you so much for water? That 
would be easier for us still at the present time. 

252. Say the debt is £5,000,000, and the Government say they want 4 per cent, for interest on capital and 
wear and tear. They want so much, and the consumption is so much, and they charge you for your con- 
sumption ? That is exactly in terms of the Act, the only thing is that you throw out the clauses requiring 
payment of the capital cost, and if the Government do not want us to take that over it is a very simple 
matter, though the city will not benefit in the future as much as the municipalities will, because it cannot 
grow much in population. 

253. In one of the Bills which have been before the Legislature, it was proposed that the rates should be 
recovered by distress, and the Legislature would not hear of it ? I suppose members knew very well the 
power was already in the Act, and it was no use duplicating it. Here is the section. {Read Section 89 
of Water and Sewerage Act.) The Board, however, on the advice of their solicitor, do not act on that, but 
we think they have ample powers to do so. We have taken advice, and we are satisfied that there is no 
necessity to put in the schedule in the Act. The Water and Sewerage Board should make a by-law: 
for it. 254. 



12 



ROYAL COMMISSION OX METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 



20 May, 1SEH 






254. We will have Mr. Williams, the Solicitor of the Board before us? Mr. Williams long ago advised that it 
was safer to issue summonses than to distrain, because then if anything is wrong, it lies with the Magistrate 
to decide, and no one is liable for damages. 

255. You put two things before us. First you complain of the non-issue of distress warrants ? That is my 
:omplaint against the Administration. 

256. And, secondly, you complain that by reason of a separate body having the control and management of 
the works, it really imposes double collecting and notice-serving charges on city and suburbs, because of 
the double machinery ? We will provide those charges without any expense to the Government. People 
do not pay twice over exactly, but they are put to more expense than they need be. We have a staff of rate 
notice-servers and of house to house inspectors, and the Water and Sewerage Board have inspectors and 
notice-servers who are constantly visiting the houses. It is unnecessary ; this double machinery, I mean. 

257. Mr. Wilson.] In the resolutions you handed in, reference is made to the extent to which the Police 
Force are used 1 They used to have to serve these 5,000 summonses, but they are served now by the Water 
and Sewerage Board's Officers. They have a small army of people all over the County of Cumberland who 
could be done away with or transferred to Municipalities. 

258. And in the City your Inspectors might be at a house and might even meet the Water and Sewerage 
Board Inspector in the same property 1 Yes, and very often too. 

259. Mr. Powell.] Is it your idea to continue the present Board as a Board of Construction and Maintenance? 
Yes, because they would have to supply the water to a number of places not at present incorporated, or 
unwilling to take over the reticulation. 

2C0. The Board would supply, and the Municipalities and the City would sell the water and collect the 
money ? Yes, and keep their reticulation in order, the Water and Sewerage Board having the control of 
main channels and the pumping stations. 

261. Are you favourable to the maintenance of the elective principle for such a Board ? Decidedly. 

262. You would still stick to election for a body only dealing with construction and maintenance ? Because 
the people have to pay for it, and if their representative sanctions expenditure that they do not like, they 
can bring him to account. You must have a highly competent skilled staff, and one thing must dovetail 
into another, and all should be clone as part of one scheme. 

263. But do you think you would get the most skilled men by the elective principle ? I do not, and that is 
why I would like to see the Government control continue ; but, inasmuch as the local people have to pay 
out of their own pockets eventually, they should have some voice in the appointment of non-skilled people 
chosen to represent them on the Board. I may say at once I am strongly in favor of a different system 
altogether. My travels have led me to the conclusion that there is no better managed city than the City of 
Washington, in the District of Columbia, in the U.S.A., and that is managed by a Commission of three men, 
who have the whole sole control of everything. They are paid a salary. 

264. President] Who appoints them ? The President, for seven years, responsible to Congress , and they 
report to Congress annually. 

265. That is the Neutral Territory 1 Yes, and it is the most admirably managed city I have ever come 
across. It was originally managed by Aldermen, and there was so much log rolling that the Government 
had to step in, and Commissioners were appointed. 

266. Mr. Powell.] That is rather an argument against the elective principle? I admit that both systems 
have their advantages. 



TUESDAY, 15 JUNE, 1897. 

present: — 

JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., President. 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq., J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq., J.P. 

Thomas Rowe, President of the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, further examined : — 

T. Rowe. 267. President.] Last time you were here, Colonel Rowe, you promised to get certain information. I presume 
-— -^- — — ^ you have got it ? Yes. 
15 June, 1S97 1 268. I did not quite finish the questions I wished to ask, but my colleagues' questions may overlap what I 
wished to ask you, so they will prooeecl first 1 Yes. 

269. Mr. Wilson.] Do you adopt the Municipal valuations in your assessments ? Yes. 

270. I see you have a great number of Assessors and Collectors in your Assessor's Branch. Would it not 
be possible to have this collection done by the Municipal authorities ? I think it would be utterly 
impossible. 

271. Why? We should never be able to get our revenue in in anything like time. We have frequently 
to start with the distribution of our assessment and rate papers long before the Borough assessments are 
complete, we go upon the previous year then. If we were to wait for the Boroughs, I really do not know 
when we would get our revenue in. The City was behind considerably last half-year, and threw us back 
very much indeed in our revenue. 

272. How did they throw you back 1 We have to take from their books, and if they are behind time with 
their assessments how can we copy them ? It would throw us right to the end of the half-year, and we 
would have no time to collect our revenue at all. 

273. I suppose you see that there is a duplication of expense to some extent ? There necessarily must be 
so for us to have control. Well, I don't think there is any loss. 

274. If two bodies collect where one would do, there must be a loss ? Yes, but do you think the Boroughs 
would collect the revenue we have collected 1 Look at the arrears of revenue of the Boroughs compared 
with our arrears. And we would have to deal with fifty Boroughs. They are somewhat lax in collecting 
their rates. We know no one and favour no man. We issue our ratepapers, and if they are not paid 
within a given time, notice is given, and if that is not attended to there is no alternative then but to sue ; 
but the Boroughs never take steps of that kind, they never press in that way. 

275. 



sf.wi-i: \(,e i:i.i\i;d \:i\n'i:s (if rcvinioxci'. 



13 



275. Your argument is that the Municipal authorities are remiss in the collection of their rates, and if they T. Rowe. 
collected your revenue you would suffer hopelessly ? Yes. And they are so frequently late with their f~ """Ton* 
re-assessments of property that they would throw us back, so much so that we could not overtake our 

work. It is nearly always the end of May before they get their assessments out. It would throw the 
whole thing out of gear to trust to fifty other Boroughs. There would be no regularity. It would throw 
the whole thing into confusion. We have not yet got the assessments on a large number of Municipalities. 

276. You see no alternative but to retain the present system of collection? I see no alternative. That is 
a matter that has been discussed several times with our officers. 

277. The duties of these clerks, assessors, and collectors are defined in the return, I believe ? Yes. Of 
course we assess all new properties, and properties which are not assessed and come into existence after the 
assessment of the Boroughs, and the assessment is altered if necessary when the property is assessed by the 
Boroughs next year. 

278. What is your method of collection ? You have how many collectors 1 Nine District clerks with 
Assistants. 

279. And how do they deliver the notices ? Each District Clerk and his assistant also has his notice and 
ratepapers" to distribute. The work is divided among a number of men and they have so many rate papers 
to distribute in a day. There are 118,906 properties altogether to deal with each half-year. 

280. How do you notify a man who has property in more than one municipal district ? Each property is 
dealt with separately. If a person has a dozen, 20, or 30 properties, he may give in a property list, to the 
office, and he can pay on that property list irrespective of the ratepapers. 

281. Supposing, for instance, I had property in two or three different districts, I could hand you a list of 
my properties, and you would notify me on one sheet of the rates for these properties ? Yes. 

282. But if I do not do that, there is a separate notice sent for each property 1 ? A ratepaper is distributed 
at each of the properties in any case, because we have to prove delivery of that ratepaper. 

283. Will you hand in the details of the expenses of the Board's visits'? Yes. ( Vide Appendix.') 

2S4. What is the object of these visits? It is necessary that the Board should have an intelligent idea of 
the works that they preside over as a Board, and we make annual visits, and other visits when necessary, 
in order that every man should have an idea of the works. If anew member came on the Board, how could 
he give an intelligent vote upon anything unless he was acquainted with the nature of these works ? 

285. I see that in a visit to Appin Falls Cataract Kiver there were 11 persons. How many members are 
there on the Board ? Seven. 

286. So there were four there who were not members of the Board ? The Secretary, the Engineer, Mr. Jacob 
(the Superintendent), and the local officer. One of those trips is more expensive than others because of 
returning to Campbelltown, late at night, and having to get refreshments. We did not get into town until 
half-past ten or eleven o'clock at night. 

287. In an answer you gave to a question you said the Board's visit to Annandale took half a day ? What 
did they do at Annandale in half a day ? They started at two o'clock for Annandale, and visited the quarry 
there about which there is a dispute with reference to a sewer going through a man's land. That was 
examined thoroughly, and then we looked at the works along the line, the Monier arch work. We got 
back about five o'clock. 

288. When you visit such a place as Prospect, do the Board inspect the whole of the works — everything 
that is to be seen there ? Everything it is necessary to see. Sometimes they go down the tunnel. 

289. Take the recent visit to Cataract. Did all the members inspect the tunnels? I think so. There 
might have been one or two exceptions who remained outside, but I think the general body went through 
the tunnel. We got into a car, and had electric lights and candles and things. 

290. Have you any private business ? Yes. 

291. What is it? As an Architect. 

292. Is there not some feeling in the profession, regarding the fact, that an Architect should be the 
President of the Sewerage Board 1 I do not know of any myself, unless it might be arising from jealousy. 

293. But is not the position rather liable to create that feeling? Do you not think it gives you an 
advantage in the profession to be in a position like that ? I do not think so. I think it is the other way 
about. It is a disadvantage sometimes to me. 

294. You do not know of any such feeling ? I do not. I have been on the Board now for six years or more. 

295. It has never been brought under your notice at all? I do not know, but there might be one or two 
envious. There are always some to cry out of course, out of sheer jealousy possibly. 

296. Is there any other member of the Board who has a private business? Every member of the Board 
has a private business. 

297. What are their businesses? Take the official members first. Mr. Mansfield is an architect, 
Mr. Macpherson, of Holdswoith, Macpherson, & Co., and myself are the other two official members. The 
City member is Mr. Taylor, the Vice-President, and Alderman Buckle, elected ; and then for the Boroughs 
there are Alderman David Davis, of Woollahra Council, and Alderman Ahearn, of Burwood Council. 

298. Has the Board ever had any business transactions, as a Board, with any of these members for the 
supply of material, or any other form of business transaction ? ISTo. As an exception some items are got 
from Holdsworth, Macpherson, & Co., if it is suitable to go there, after getting prices quoted. We go 
round the whole of the ironmongers and obtain quotations, and if they are the lowest the order may be 
given. These are all items out of contract. 

299. Can you give us a return of what is paid to Holdsworth, Macpherson, & Co., for 1896 ? We will 
furnish that. 

300. With the exception of a few articles furnished by Holdsworth, Macpherson, & Co., you have no business 
transactions with the members ? No, but I might say Aldermen Davis and Ahearn are contractors. 

301. Have they had any contracts with the Board ? No. 

302. By what authority are the Board's fees fixed 1 By the Act. 

303. There is rather a tendency to increase in the expenses of the Board as a Board. Will you explain 
that. I think I understand the explanation myself, but I would like you to explain ? I think it is in 
consequence of the change taking place, because of the transfer of Mr. Darley. It was more at one time. 
In 1890 it was £2,485, then in 1894 it was down to £1,695, and in 1895 it rose to £1,920, and in 1896 
to £2,045. 

304. 



14 ROYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 

T. Rowe. 304. You said that appointments on the recommendation of members of the Board or Aldermen were made 
^-"*~ A -— ~s at the time the Board was being organised 1 Yes. 

15 June, 1897. 305. When were the Board appointed ? In March, 1888. 

306. When was the system of recommendation for appointment stopped 1 About two or three years after. 

307. I find that in 1891 there were four such appointments, in 1892 five, in 1894 (only three years ago) 
there were nine, in 1895 there were six, in 1896 there were six, and in 1897 one, a total of thirty-one 
appointments by recommendations since 1891, which is three years after the Board's formation? Yes, 
possibly there may have been some resignations and positions filled up. 

308. Assuming there were resignations, there were appointments filled up by recommendation after three 
years from the formation of the Board. These are officers, not workmen ? They might be draftsmen or 
surveyors in the Engineer's Department. I will have it looked into, and give you the particulars. 

309. Who are your examiners ? The accountant and the secretary. 

310. So that the examination is really conducted by officers of the Board ? Yes. 

311. Not by independent officers at all 1 By officers of the Board. 

312. You were asked to prepare a list of officers whom you considered unsatisfactory. Have you got that 
list ? I do not think you asked for it. 

313. Are there any officers still employed who have been guilty of any irregularities of any kind in regard 
to cash or of any other kind ? I do not know of any. Anyone guilty of cash irregularity would not be 
there very long, I am quite certain of that. 

314. Are there any other officers employed under somewhat similar circumstances to those of Mr. Jones,, 
mentioned last time 1 No. 

315. When an officer has committed an offence how is he dealt with ? He is reported by the head of his 
division. 

316. To whom ? Tome. It passes through the secretary. It comes up with the papers that morning, 
and the man is brought up before me to be dealt with. If it is a slight irregularity of any kind he is 
reprimanded and cautioned, and the second time more severely dealt with, and the third time dismissed. 

317. Suppose the first offence is embezzlement? The man of course would be immediately suspended, and 
the matter brought before the full Board. 

318. Has that been done in every case ? Not in my career — not in my presidency. There was a case after 
my first presidency — a case of defalcation — and the man was arrested and dealt with by law. That is the 
only case. 

319. It would not be possible for you to deal with an officer guilty of serious irregularity without the 
knowledge of the Board ? No. 

320. Do you keep a register of offences? I think the papers themselves are the record. There is no special 
register, but the papers are always looked up for previous offences. 

321. You said, I think, that in your opinion there was no officer who was overpaid? Yes, I did say so. 

322. There are some things here that no doubt can be explained. There is an examiner of accounts at 
,£350, one at £225, one at £175, and one at £25. There seems a great difference in these salaries ? The 
last is a junior — a boy in his first year — at £25. 

323. Then they go up and down from £175 to £350. That seems to be a big difference? The examiner 
of accounts is the principal man. We always look to him. The others are the staff under him. There is 
only one examiner — Mr. Kennedy. He is the only man who attaches his name to any document as 
examiner. 

324. There ai-e nine waste-water inspectors at £156. Do you consider that is a fair thing 1 I think it is 
fair. Frequently in the summer time they work at night in house to house inspection, very late at night 
examining houses to catch people wasting water or watering gardens without a meter. They want a lot of 
looking after. 

325. Then there is one at £104 ? That is a young man — Alexander. A very old servant of the Board 
died, and out of sympathy for the widow, the young fellow, who was a promising young man, was taken on 
at that salary, and will rise as he gains more experience. He took his father's position in fact at a lower 
salary. He is quite an able fellow, but has not the experience that his father had. 

326. You have inspectors here, one at £402, one at £302, and one at £189. It that £402 a fair salary? 
Is that the Inspector of Fipelaying and Water Service ? 

327. I do not know what it is. It is £402 ? Yes, he is a valuable officer, his salary is £350 and forage 
allowance, £52. 

328. The preparation of notices by contract you state that the Board does not favour, as it is likely to lead 
to sweating. What is your opinion ? I think it does. 

329. Why is it continued ? Because there was a contract entered into for a certain time. It expires at. 
the end of this month. Then I presume the Board will make some change. 

330. You allow a discount ? Yes. 

331. Did you increase the water rate before allowing that discount ? I was not on the Board at the time. 
It was increased before the 10 per cent, was allowed ; the discount is now reduced to 5 per cent. 

332. What class of citizens take advantage of this discount ? Nearly every class if they can, but chiefly - 
the large proprietors and agents for large owners of property. My personal opinion is opposed to making 
any allowance whatever. 

333. It is quite clear that the very poor cannot take advantage of it all ? Yes . It has not lessened the 
summons account in the least. It is the wealthy people who take advantage of it. 

334. Have you many summonses for water rates ? Yes. 

335. Could you not cut the water off? We could, but then it would be considered very arbitrary ; we 
are rather an unpopular Board now for enforcing the regulations under the Act. Then we had to look at 
it from the health point of view. We could not cut off the water from the closets connected with the 
sewers. We do cut off water in extreme cases, but are very cautious in doing so. 

336. Your reason for summoning instead of cutting off is that it would increase the unpopularity of the 
Board ? Yes, together with the health consideration. It would be expensive as well to the people, as we 
must charge for disconnection and reconnection, and there would be a lot of expense to collect a small amount. 

337. On the other hand there is the labour and expense of summoning ? True, but if the supply were cut 
off, the neighbours around would suffer also ; through the stoppage of water for the closets, it would be very 
offensive. 338. 



SEWERAGE BOARD — MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. 1.5 

338. What is the process of recovery of these rates ? By summons in the Small Debts and District Courts. T. Howe. 
We prefer that we should have the power to levy and distrain, but that was cut out of the Bill. ^-~- A ~-«*s 

339. You have not the power? We have the power, but no power to recover costs of distress. Therefore 15 June, 1S97. 
we never attempt that sort of thing, unless the proprietors guarantee to the Board that they will pay the 

costs. 

"340. Is that the only reason why you do not adopt distress instead of summons ? Yes, we prefer to recover 
costs. 

341. Would it be correct to state that one reason for summoning instead of distraining is the risk that 
would attach to distraining ? It is a question of costs principally. 

342. I mean the risk of mistake ; was the Board at all influenced in adopting the system of summoning 
instead of distraining by the fact that there is a certain legal liability attached to wrongful distress ? Yes, 
I think that did influence the Board. It would be very dangerous. 

343. If your books are properly kept, there should be no more risk of wrongful distress than there would 
be in a bank which deals with thousands of transactions in dishonouring a cheque? It has been taken into 
consideration from time to time. As we take our information from the Council's books, if the latter were 
wrong, and we distrained, we would be liable. 

344. Then the main reason is that the Act gives no power to recover costs ; you can recover rates, but not 
costs ? Yes, that is it. 

345. What hours do your employees work in the office ? They come at 9 and leave at half-past 4. 
The]' frequently remain behind until 8 or 9 o'clock to get up arrears of work. 

346. And the out-door employees ? Work the same time, 9 to 4.30. That does not apply to the rate- 
servers, nor to the waste water inspectors, nor the drainage inspectors. 

347. What hours do the drainage and plumbing inspectors work ? They do whatever they have to do no 
matter what time it takes them. They have no set hours at all. 

348. You mentioned that the meter rate up to 20,000,000 gallons was Is., and beyond that 9d. 1 Yes. 

349. And the Sugar Company gains £2,000 a year by this? I think there is a mistake there. I should 
like to withdraw that, and I hand in this statement as a correct one. (Vide Appendix.) 

350. So that for 3| years, by this statement, it was £1,254, instead of £2,000 a year? Yes. 

351. Of course it is self-evident that it was a mistake. You said you were opposed to this concession to 
large consumers ? Yes. 

352. Why are you opposed to it ? I thought the large consumers had no right to a concession over the 
small ones. I thought it was giving them too great an advantage over the small manufacturers. 

353. But the large consumer in every business has an advantage ? I presume from a commercial point of 
view they are entitled to it. I stated that four or five years back, when this arrangement was first made 
by the Board, that I was averse to it. 

354. I have asked you now why you are opposed to it, and you say because the large consumer has an 
advantage over the small manufacturer ; it is the same in every business, the large consumer has an 
advantage over the small consumer. Anthony Hordern has an advantage over every man in the same line 
■of business in Sydney ? Yes. I advocated at the time that the large man should have no advantage over 
the small. 

355. The supply I understand is a very plentiful one? Yes. 

356. Therefore it would seem to be good business to encourage consumption so long as the general public 
do not suffer by scarcity of water ? Yes. 

357. It would help to pay the interest on the whole thing? I do not think it would make any difference 
to consumption. I cannot tell. 

358. About the system of competitive examination again ; you are really your own examiners ? Yes, there 
is no one from outside the office. 

359. President.'] I think you said you lost something like £10,000 by this concession to consumers when I 
asked you how it was there was a deficit of £20,000 ? I cannot say what amount now, but it was some- 
thing like that. There was a loss in consequence of that. 

360. I see by this return that it is extended over 3| years, so that the loss is something like £3,000 per 
annum 1 Yes. 

361. As a matter of fact then the real loss by reason of this concession to consumers comes to £3,000 a 
year ? Yes, at those prices. But the great reduction in the revenue was caused by the reduction from 
Is. 6d. to Is. 

362. Judging from last year's returns it comes to something like £3,000 ? Yes. I think I must have been 
referring to the reduction from Is. 6d. to Is., which caused a very great reduction. 

363. As a matter of fact the loss by the allowance comes to £3,000 a year ? Yes. 

364. Mr. Wilson.'] Is the candidate who obtains the highest number of marks always appointed 1 Yes. 

365. Do the examiners report to the Board ? Yes, and in the event of the first man not accepting, the 
next is taken, and the next, and the next, and as men are required the others on the list are taken. 

366. When a property is connected with the sewer the work is inspected by your officers ? Yes. 

367. How many officers go and inspect it ? The plumber and drainer. A man may be an exj>ert in plumbing 
and may know nothing of draining. 

368. Are there two men to inspect it then 1 Not always. The plumber has generally a good knowledge 
of drainage but it might be drainage work only. Sometimes it is combined. 

369. Suppose it is work involving both ? We have men who are combined experts. 

370. If it involves both; are there two men sent ? There are two sorts, men who inspect drainage, and men 
who inspect plumbing. 

371. Could not an intelligent plumber be trained to inspect drainage ? Yes. 

372. Is it necessary to have a drainage staff of inspectors as well as plumbers ! I think it is. We have 
men who have been brought up all their lives to the work. Deep drainage requires more knowledge of 
drainage work than plumbing. 

373. Is it a fact the plumbing inspector inspects the cisterns, baths, &c, and the drainage inspector in- 
spects the other part ? It appears that it is so, but I am quite certain that we have men who are competent 
to do both. 

374. That is not the question. Suppose you connect a small cottage with the sewer, it appears you send 
two inspectors to inspect a small work like that which costs probably not more than £10 ? Yes. 

375. 



16 



ROYAL COMMISSION OX METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 



T. Kowe. 375. Is that really necessary ; could not an intelligent plumber do all, do the work of both, with two days 

, - T , ~ ■"„ training ; how many drainage inspectors are there ? It is on the list, nine drainers and four plumbers, 
ldJune, 1S97. i i j. • f j. i !_• 

and we have two inspectors of water plumbing. 

376. What are their wages ? The two chief inspectors of drainage get £254 16s., with £52 for forage each, 
and the rest get £187 4s., that is 12s. a clay. 

377. What I want to be clear about is this, that in these jobs, many of them small, not exceeding £5 or 
£10, there are two men sent to inspect, one the inspector of plumbing proper, and another man who knows 
nothing about plumbing is sent to inspect the other part of the job ; now is that justifiable in these small 
jobs ? I should think so. It is justifiable. But as to the abilities of the men, the plumber may be competent 
to inspect the drain but a drainer would not be competent to inspect plumbing. 

378. Would not any intelligent plumber in a few days be as competent to inspect drains as any drainer ? 
Some do it no doubt, but plumbers never take levels and a drainer has to do that, to correct the levels of 
the drains ; the plumbers are not brought up to that kind of work. I should think there would be danger 
in mixing up the work. 

379. You uphold the present system by which two inspectors go round, sometimes together, to inspect the 
same place ? I do not think they go together. The plumber has a number of places to inspect. 

380. You still say you defend that system ? I defend that system, but still I say that it is possible to have 
a man do both, but not as a rule. 

381. Do you admit that some do it 1 I do not know, but I think so. I would not be positive that it is so, 
but I have met men who are competent to do it. As a rule it would be a very dangerous practice. There 
are many districts that have the water laid on but not sewerage, and the sewerage follows. 

382. Is there not a sinking fund provided for' this capital account ? I think not. 

383. There is no provision for it ? No. 

. 384. Have you a return of the summonses you issued in 1896 ? We will get that. 

385. Mr. Powell] About the bonus for prompt payment ; can you tell us what amount has been allowed 
for any complete period, say for 1896? It is roughly about £9,000 a year from the 5 per cent, allowance. 

386. How are the summonses served ; — are they served by the Board ? By the district clerks and their 
assistants. 

387. Were they not issued by the police at one time ? The secretary says that they were, but I do not 
know, until twelve months ago. 

388. And what cost has been incurred by the issuing of summonses by the Board? Three shillings in each 
case. Formerly the 3s. was paid and an additional sum for mileage, running up to as much as lis. at 
Hurstville. 

389. I suppose some of the summonses are for very small amounts ? Yes, as low as 5s. 

390. Is it a fact that you have had summonses issued for less than 5s. ? I daresay we have. 

391. Is it a fact that you have issued a summons for so small an amount as lOd? If the public begin to 
know we are lax in serving summonses because it is for a few shillings, it will affect the revenue very much 
and therefore we have to treat everyone alike. The secretary says he thinks I may safely say " No " to 
that. I have no knowledge of that. I have never heard of such a thing. 

392. You cannot say. They may have been issued ? I cannot say personally. There would be a complaint 
made, and I should have heard of it before now. 

393. 1 have heard that you have issued a summons for lOd. ? I do not know of it. 

394. Can you tell us how many cases of persons illegally using water have been reported by the water in- 
spectors for 1896 ? They are very numerous indeed ; I think they would average twenty a week. 

395. How many inspectors are there ? Nine. 

396. I think you have the right under the Act to send any of your officers on to premises ? Yes. 

397. Mr. Wilson spoke of the advantage it would be to cut water off, and you urged that it would be 
dangerous upon sanitary grounds ; well, would it not be quite possible to enter and lock all taps that are 
used for general consumption apart from those used for closets. You have the right to enter, and having 
that right could not your officers lock all taps in any house that they might think it necessary to enter? I 
do not think that could be done. There is generally a stopcock to the supply-pipe for ordinary premises, 
and if you turn off that you turn off the whole supply, closet as well. We have no power to cut off on the 
premises themselves. The stop-cock must be outside, on the pathway, for instance, but not on the pre- 
mises. There are some instances where a supply-pipe might supply several houses, and a whole terrace 
might suffer. 

398. I am presuming that you can lock each separate tap in each separate house if necessary to do so ? 
We cannot do it. 

399. What is your right of entry for? For examination only to see that the fittings are right, to see to 
waste, and for sanitary purposes. 

400. Can you tell us what amount, if any, is written off' annually for rates not recoverable ? We only 
write off irrecoverable fees for stock, gardens, and various other things, but not for any rates. 

401. But there must be a great number of people who fail to pay, I presume ? For rates only ? 

402. Yes ? None is written off. 

403. Then you collect every penny that is clue ? We try to ; if not paid it is carried on as arrears on that 
• property. 

404. What arrears were there at the end of 1S96 ? £43,000 up to June, 1896, including everything — in- 
cluding £13,000 for meter accounts for the meter year only then just ended, and there were £6,000 in 
charities and churches, and some Government moneys. 

405. So that a large portion of that £43,000 may yet be recoverable ? Yes. 

406. President.] Are you quite certain you could not recover any costs under distress warrants ? That is 
the advice of our solicitor. 

407. Suppose a bailiff is put into a house when arrears o"f rates are clue, is it not a fact that costs are 
also added on to the overdue amount ? Yes, but our solicitor advises us that the Act is defective in that 
respect, and that we could not possibly recover costs. 

408. Can you say for a fact that it is not possible to collect the costs by distress warrants ? That is the 
advice of our solicitor. We put them on the bill and we try to get them if we can, but if the tenant declines, 
to pay we have no power to enforce it. 

409. 



SEWERAGE BOARD MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 17 

409. I understand that not only is that your reason for not employing the method, but also because it is T - Rowe. 
a more risky proceeding than issuing a summons ? Yes I have said so. .-' t tsq7 

410. Is it partly because it is a more risky proceeding, and partly because you cannot recover costs 1 It ° une ' J '' 
must be considered a rather risky proceeding. 

411. The two objections against the method of collection would be, first, the want of legal authority to 
collect costs, and, secondly, that it is a more risky proceeding; can you tell me if it would be a cheaper 
method of collection to the consumer than the issue of summons ? Levy and distress would be a little 
cheaper to the defaulter certainly. The City Council say it works very well. 

412. If the legal difficulties could be removed would you be disposed to recommend that distress warrants 
should be resorted to ? Yes. The Board are. quite in favour of it, and had a new clause inserted in the 
Amending Bill which was thrown out. 

413. Is it just the legal difficulty that stands in the way then? Yes. 

414. Mr. Wilson asked you, could not the city and suburban collectors collect the rates for you, and I 
think your answer was that it would put you so far behind in the year in the collection of the rates. You 
said the assessments in the suburbs at any rate are made out rather late in the year and you would have 
to wait for them ? That is one reason. 

415. Would it not be possible to use these collectors still, but at different periods of the year ; that is to 
say, you could use them in the early part of the year to collect water rates, even if at a later time they 
had to go over it for municipal rates ? I do not think it possible at all. I think it would get all 
mixed up. It would be next to impossible to carry on in a proper manner to have to do with the 
boroughs in such a way. 

416. I am not expressing an opinion in asking this question, although I may appear to be. I 
suppose you see that that would be one of the reasons that would be adduced as to the desirability 
of handing over the waterworks to the city and suburbs, that the expense could be reduced by that 
means, one set of officers doing the work that now requires to be done by two ? I do not think it is 
practicable. 

417. I suppose you see that that is one, of the arguments? Yes. 

418. The argument is that one set of officers would then do the work that now requires two sets. But you 
do not think it possible, from your point of view? I do not. Seeing the way that things are carried on in 
the municipalities, T do not think it would be an advantage to the Government. 

419. Is it not a fact that the municipalities' assessments are not out until almost the middle of the year or, 
at any rate, until three months are over ? Yes ; very frequently. 

420. And, therefore, if you waited for them, you could not issue your notices until late in the year ? Yes. 

421. At present you take the assessments for the previous year ? Yes. 

422. And, therefore, you are able to issue your notices (say) in the month of January ? Yes. 

423. The same difficulty does not exist in regard to the city ? I think their assessments are every three 
years. It throws us back when their assessments come round. 

424. But it would not with regard to the other years ? I do not think it would. The appeal court might 
affect it. There is an appeal court every year. 

425. Can you tell me when the city issue their rate notices ? I do not know. I could not tell. I do not 
think they are out yet.- If so, they are only just issued. 

426. So there really is an objection in that respect ? If you waited for them it would put you back for 
months in the year in getting your revenue ?. And you think the suggestion of getting the revenues 
collected at different times is not workable ? Yes. 

427. When you were here last you kindly promised to look a little more into the question of interest added 
to capital during the progress of works ; have you done so ? Yes ; here is the return. 

428. Perhaps you will kindly read that as an answer to the question? In the case of works constructed by 
the Government and vested in the Board, the rule now is to charge interest annually in Board's books on 
the cost of same from the end of the year during which they were handed over to the Board in a completed 
state. In the case of stormwater sewers, the revenue from which is a distinct fund, the interest is now 
only charged from the date of striking a rate in the district the expenditure refers to. With regard to the 
expenditure by the Board on works, interest is charged annually on the amount of expenditure to the end 
of the previous year. 

429. Then according to that the interest which the State have to pay on the capital as it is being expended, 
is not charged to the capital account ? No. When it is handed over to us, we then debit ourselves with 
interest on that work, but not until it is handed over in a complete state. 

430. Who has to pay the interest on the cost of the work as it is being constructed ? The country, I 
presume. 

431. That is the case on works constructed by the Government, but on works constructed by yourselves, 
and on stormwater sewers ? Yes. 

432. That applies to all ? Yes. 

433. Then to put it shortly, as a matter of fact no interest is charged on the capital cost until it becomes 
reproductive ? That does not apply to the reticulation portion carried out by the Board ; on this, interest 
is charged annually as previously explained. 

434. You say " with regard to the Board's expenditure, interest is charged annually to the end of the 
previous year." You only charge interest on works you yourselves have carried out to the end of the 
previous year ? Yes. Our works do not take years. 

435. But it may be so ? Yes. 

336. Considering that the works have cost some millions of money, would not the interest on the cost of 
the work during construction represent a very large sum of money ? Yes, it certainly would. 

437. Could you furnish the Commission with a return showing the amount of interest which the State had 
to pay on loan expenditure before it became reproductive, and that has not been added to the capital cost 
of the work ? I do not think it is possible for us because we know nothing about payments that take place 
upon various Government contracts on hand. 

438. You know for a fact that it is not charged 1 Yes. 

439. And you cannot give us that statement ? No. It was asked by the Board to be prepared and there 
was a big pile of papers sent down, but the return was not completed. 

278— C 440. 



18 



ROYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 

440. Of course you see it is a very important thing to to get that information. I think I might say that, 
with regard to the country water supplies, interest has been charged on the unproductive capital previous 

' to its becoming productive, and has been added on to the cost of the works. I know there have been large 
amounts written off, but still that principle has been adopted, and the advantage of that, is that the 
country sees the amount that has been written off exactly. In the case of your waterworks that has not 
been done, it appears, and the country does not know what has been written off on that account 1 No. 
In previous years there has been a credit balance of £80,000 upon which we could draw, and we have since 
1888 paid interest on .£423,000, which sum represents accrued interest on Nepean scheme up to that date. 

441. It requires a very careful statement to show your exact financial condition ? The Board is anxious for 
this, and has been trying to get it from the Government since 1890. 

442. It would be quite enough for us if we get a near idea as to what it is. Speaking now about the 
deficit of =£20,000 for last financial period, I think you said that in previous years there had been an excess 
of £80,000? Yes. 

443. So you contend that, taking that into account, there has been no loss to the revenue ? None whatever. 

444. And that you have a credit balance of something like £60,000 ? Yes. 

445. And this £60,000 would go, at any rate, against the loss of interest which the State is sustaining by 
reason of nothing being charged on the amount spent on works under construction? Yes. 

446. Will you in conjunction with the Works Department endeavour to get out a true financial statement 
in regard to the water and sewerage debt? We shall be very glad to do so. 

447. It is important that the people should understand exactly the true financial condition of these water 
and sewerage works ? Yes. 

448. I think you promised to get some information as to the water rates that are paid in the Australian 
and European cities ? Yes. [vide Appendix?^ And there is one you asked for as to the cost of 
collection, [vide Appendix.] 

449. Will you kindly give us the conclusions to be drawn from that ? This is a comparative return of 
the revenue and working expenses. It would appear that Sydney is charged a very low rate as 
compared with English towns, but it should be remembered that in England, for a rental of £25 
per annum, a very much larger house can be obtained than in Sydney, and secondly a larger quantity 
of water would be used. The rentals there cannot be compared with the rentals here. The higher 
the assessment the lower the rate. The percentage of working expenses to revenue here is 23, Adelaide 
25, Melbourne 20. In Melbourne the system is all gravitation, and ours is half-pumped. Ours is low as 
compared with others. 

450. What I want to find out is this, taking every possible thing into consideration, is it a fact that Sydney 
is charged less for its water than most of the other towns that you give in your return ? It appears so in 
this return, but in reality it is not so, as although the rate per £ is low the assessments are high. 

451. Taking everything into account what is your general conclusion in regard to what Sydney is charged 
as compared with towns in that return ? I think we compare very reasonably indeed. Our returns are 
reasonable and neither high nor low. It is a fair average. 

452. Comparing the rates paid in Sydney for the use of water with the rates of most of the other towns, 
would you consider the Sydney rates less, taking everything into consideration 1 Taking the gravitation 
against the pumping? 

453. That does not come into this question. That would be a reason for it to be higher than another 
perhaps ; are we really charged less than most of the- other towns referred to ? I think it is a 
reasonably fair average compared with the charges made in other cities. 

454. We are not unduly taxed ? No. I think that the minimum charge is low, it is really too low. I 
think it should be 15s. instead of 10s. There is a loss of revenue in that respect on a cottage. A very 
large family may consume a lot of water for 10s. 

455. Suppose the minimum were raised to 15s. what difference would it make in the revenue? Several 
thousands ; I will find out exactly. 

456. I understand that you recommend that the minimum charge be raised from 10s. to 15s? Yes. 

457. I want to point out my object ; supposing it turns out, when we look into the thing thoroughly, that 
there is a considerable debit balance every year, is it just to the whole Colony that Sydney should be charged 
so low as it is, when in every other city that you refer to they are paying considerably more ? If we had a 
balance-sheet properly drawn up we would know how to rate to meet the cost, but as already explained the 
charges in Sydney compare well with others. 

458. I suppose you admit that that is a very important view of the case ? Yes. 

451. And you will be prepared to deal with that question when the financial condition is brought out ? It 
will be our chity to do so. 

460. Now we can come to the question of percentage of working expenses to revenue ? In Sydney it is 23, 
Adelaide 25, Melbourne with a gravitation scheme 20, London 40, Southwark and Vauxhall 43, Lambeth 
37, Liverpool 31, Glasgow 26, Belfast 30, Manchester 23, Leeds 23, Birmingham 33, Edinburgh- 31, 
Dubbn 58. In Leeds, where about half the water is pumped, they have just the same percentage as in 
Sydney, where half is pumped also. In Adelaide, where about half is pumped it is 25 ; and in Melbourne - 
where it is all gravitation it is 20. Boston is 37. 

461. Will you kindly tell me the percentage of revenue to the cost of collection in the cities of Sydney, 
Melbourne, Brisbane, and Adelaide 1 Sydney revenue is £259,843 ; cost of collection £9,677 ; and 
the percentage, 3-72. In Melbourne the revenue is £164,204; the cost of collection, £6,832 ; and the 
percentage, 4-16. In Brisbane the revenue is £43,750 ; the cost of collection, £1,880 ; and the percentage 
is 4-29. In Adelaide the revenue is £89,447 ; the cost of collection is £4,838, and the percentage 5-40. 
So it is all in favour of Sydney. 

462. When we were examining you last time, the question was asked : — "Are the full rates allowable by 
law charged for storm-water sewers ? " And you said " No, not in all cases " ; and then the question was 
asked : " Can you tell in what cases they are enforced, and in what they are not? " and you said you would 
work that out ; have jon got it ? Here is a complete list of rates charged in all storm- water areas : — 

City of Sydney — Rushcutter Creek drain 7d. in the £ ; Wentworth Park drain 7d. in the £. 
Alexandria — Munni Street (Erskineville) drain 7d. in the £. 

Ashfield — Long Cove Creek drain, Class A 3d. in the £ ; Class B Id. in the £. Iron Cove Creek drain, 
Class A 6d. in the £ ; Class B 4d. in the £ ; Iron Cove Creek extension, 7d. in the £. Balmain. 



SEWERAGE BOARD — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



1:9 



Balmain— Beattie Street, 2d. in the £. u Kowe - 

Burwood — Iron Cove Creek Extension, Homebush Creek drain, 7d. in the £. _ 

Canterbury — Iron Cove Creek drain, Class A, 6d. in the £ ; Class B 4d. in the £. 

Enfield — Iron Cove Creek drain, Class A 6d. in the £ ; Class B 4d. in the £. 

Erskineville — Munni Street, 7d. in the £. 

Glebe — -Wentworth Park, 7d. in the £. 

Loichhardt — Long Cove Creek, Class A 3d. in the £ ; Class B Id. in the £. 

Newtown — Munni Street, (Erskineville) drain 7d. in the £. 

North Sydney — Willoughby Ealls drain, Careening Cove drain, Neutral Bay drain, 7d. in the £. 

Paddington — Bushcutter's Creek drain, 7d. in the £. 

Petersham — Long Cove Creek, Class A, 3d. in the £ ; Class B, Id. in the £. 

Strathfield — Homebush Creek drain, 7d. in the £. 

Waterloo — Shea's Creek drain, 7d. in the £. 

463. With regard to this return, is it a fact that when you have charged less than 7d. that rate is found 
sufficient to cover the interest on capital and working expenses ? Yes. 

464. Is it a fact that the stormwater drains, according to the rates you have levied, all pay interest on 
capital and working expenses 1 No. There is a large sum spent in the sewered districts which we get no 
return from. We cannot levy two rates. 

465. What I mean is this : Where the stormwater is not merged in the sewerage scheme, is it a fact that 
in every case a rate sufficient to pay interest on capital and working expenses is levied ? No. 

466. Of course I am well aware that when the sewerage scheme is completed the stormwater sewer is an 
adjunct, can you tell me the cases where it does not, pay ? We go to 7d. in the £. In every instance 
where 7d. is charged it is insufficient. 

467. Does it always cover the cost where the lower rate is charged? All those that are charged under 7d. 
pay interest, and on all those at 7d. there is a loss. 

468. In every case where the full rate is charged there is a loss ? Yes. 

469. In every case where less than 7d. is charged it is sufficient ? Yes. 

470. Can you give us a return of the deficiency in each case where there is a deficiency 1 The gross revenue 
is 4'55, and the interest and maintenance without proportion of head office expenses is 5 per cent., so that 
there is a deficiency of \ per cent. Irrespective of that there is interest and maintenance in connection 
with the amount of £37,000, which is the cost of stormwater drains in sewered areas on which we cannot 
levy a rate, and practically get nothing for. 

471. You lose on stormwater drains when they merge into the sewerage proper 1 Yes. 

472. Are you charging the highest amount allowed by law in connection with the sewerage rates in the city 
and suburbs ? No ; we are charging 7d., but we can go to Is. 

473. Notwithstanding that there is a loss in connection with them, do you not think that the capital spent 
on the stormwater drains should be added on to the capital of the sewerage debt ? That is done. 

474. And still there is a loss 1 There are £37,000 on which we cannot levy a drainage rate, and which are 
debited to the cost of the sewerage scheme. 

475. Would not that be a necessary adjunct to the sewerage scheme? Each neighbourhood has been dealt 
with separately. 

476. When the capital spent on the stormwater drains is taken into the general sewerage debt should not 
the city provide rates sufficient to cover the interest 1 That is a great question, because the stormw-ater 
drains out at Strathfield, Burwood, or Ashfield are for the individual advantage of the people in those 
particular neighbourhoods, and the cost of that would be added on to the whole. 

477. Do you not think that the sewerage debt should be looked on as a whole, when the stormwater drains 
are merged in the general system 1 It will have to be, no doubt, because the great outfall is for the great 
body of the people. 

478. You have said that wherever the stormwater drains are connected with the general system of drainage 
it practically pays interest. It is only these disconnected stormwater drains on which there is a loss ? 
Yes, In sewerage districts it is tacked on to the general system of drainage on which we get a rate. It 
will be the case with all by-and-by, but in the meantime there is a loss. 

479. Is an account taken of the loss year by year ? I think so. 

480. Is it the intention of the Board to debit that loss to the sewerage scheme when rates can be levied 
which cover that 1 I think so. That is the only way it can be done. 

481. It is not the intention of the Board to allow that to go, and the Colony generally to bear that? No. 

482. When the sewerage scheme is carried out in its entirety, that will be added on to the general scheme 1 
Yes. 

483. Will you kindly let us have a statement showing the loss the general taxpayers are paying now on 
account of these stormwater sewers, the loss in connection with each stormwater channel in each district ? 
Yes. 

484. There were some other questions which I asked ; — what were the causes which contributed to the 
reduction of the percentage on interest and capital cost? Water. In 1888 the percentage of interest on 
capital cost after paying expenses was 3-81, in 1889 3-78, in 1890, 3.96, in 1891, 4-36. In 1892 there was 
a fall to 3-68 ; this was due to the following circumstances : — {a) Reduction of meter rate from Is. 6d. to 
Is. per thousand gallon, (b) Reduction of consumption of water by meter consequent upon heavy 
rainfall during the year, (c) Transfer of Prospect Works to Board, which increased the annual mainten- 
ance charges by nearly £6,000. (d) Breaking away of large brick aqueduct below Prospect, which cost 
£3,000 to repair. (e) Accident at Liverpool dam, caused by heavy rain, which cost a large sum to repair. 
In 1893 the percentage was raised again to 3'97, and in 1894 a further rise again took place to 4-05, but 
in 1895 there was a fall to 3-54, while for the year 1895-6 the return was 3-62 per cent. In January, 
1895, the capital debt was increased by the sum of £713,647, being the cost of the Pott's Hill Reservoir 
duplicate pipe line from Pott's Hill to Crown-street ; and the North Shore Water Supply, also increase 
of reticulation. The interest which the Board had to debit themselves in connection with these works was 
£28,000, and as no fresh revenue was collected on account of Pott's Hill Reservoir and duplicate pipe 
line, the result was to reduce the percentage. Another reason for the bad result was the all-round 
leduction in the assessments of the City and Suburban Councils. Sewerage : In 1890 the percentage of 

interest 



20 



KOYAL COMMISSION ON' METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 



T. Eowe. interest was 5-06, in 1891 4-16, in 1892 4-03, in 1893 4-19, in 1894 3-97, in 1895 3-34, and in 1895-6 3-09. 

r '~" ~~rr^_ There has, therefore, been a gradual reduction, which is accounted for as follows : — Transfer to control of 
me ' Board of storm-water channels constructed by Government. Although the Board are empowered to strike 

a drainage-rate outside sewered districts they are limited by the Act to 7d. in the £ ; and as the amount to 
be collected at this rate is insufficient, in many cases, to meet interest charges and maintenance, the 
deficiency has to be charged against the sewerage scheme. There is a sum of about £37,000 returning 
absolutely no revenue, as it represents the cost of storm-water channels constructed by Government in 
sewered districts ; and by the Act, where a sewerage-rate is charged, a drainage-rate cannot also be 
charged. Other reasons for the drop in 1895, are the general reductions in city and suburban assessments, 
and allowance of 10 per cent, for prompt payment of rates, which has since been reduced to 5 per cent. 
This discount did not affect the results of the water revenue, as the rate was raised to 7d. in the £, but 
with the sewerage there was no increase in the rate. Water and sewerage : Taking the results of the 
Water and Sewerage together, it will be seen that in every year down to 1894, the revenue, after 
paying expense, was more than sufficient to pay interest charges. Up to the end of 1894 the accumulated 
credit balance was £84,500 6s. ; the financial result of the 18 months ending 30th June, 1896, was a loss 
of £30,963 18s.i 6d. ; deducting the latter sum from the former sum will leave a credit balance still at the 
beginning of the present year of £53,536 7s. 6d. 

485. What did the City Council charge before the Board came into operation? Water-rate, 3s. 6d. per room 
per annum; meter charge, Is. 3d. per 100 gallons; sewerage rate, 6d. in the £ on the assessed annual 
value. 

486. What were the rates and chai-ges first imposed by the Board? Water-rate, on premises of an annual 
value of £20 and under, 10s. per annum ; 6d. in the £ on the assessed value from £20 to £300 ; 5d. from 
£300 to £700 ; 4d. from £700 to £1,000 ; 3d. from £1,000 to £4,000 ; 2d. in excess of £4,000. Vacant 
land of the assessed value of £60 and over, 2d. in the £. Meter charges, Is. 6d. per 1,000 gallons. 
Sewerage-rate, on premises of an assessed value of £17 and under, 10s. per annum ; over £17 a rate of 
7d. in the £. Vacant lands of an assessed value of £40 and over, 3d. in the £. 

487. What are the rates and charges now imposed by the Board ? On premises of an assessed value of 
£17 and under, 10s. per annum. Water-rate, 7d. in the. £ on the assessed annual value from £17 
to £300; 5d. from £300 to £700; 4d. from £700 to £1,000; 3d. from £1,000 to £4,000; 2d. in 
excess of £4,000. Vacant land, 4d. in the £ on the assessed value. Meter charge, Is. per 1,000 gallons 
up to 20,000,000 gallons per annum, and 9d. per 1,000 for all in excess of this quantity. Sewerage-rate, 
on premises of an assessed value of £17 and under, 10s. per annum ; over £17, a rate of 7d. in the £. 
Vac-ant lands, 4d. in the £ on the assessed value. A discount of £5 per cent, is allowed if paid within 
30 days, provided such allowance does not reduce the rate or charges below the sum of 10s. per annum. 
The water-rate charged at Liverpool, Campbelltown, Smithfield, and along the Milson's Point railway line 
from Chatswood to Hornsby is Is. in the £. No discount is allowed. In addition to the rates and charges 
mentioned above, special fees are charged where it is desired to use water without meter for purposes other 
than domestic, viz., stock, gardens, building purposes, gas engines, steam boilers, ventilators, &c. 

488. What is the proportion of the Government accounts and meter accounts, including railways, to the 
general revenue of the Board? 8-9 per cent. 



Thomas Robert Steel, Accountant to the Public Works Department, sworn and examined : — 
T. R. Steel. 489. President.] What is your name ? Thomas Robert Steel. 
.-— — A ~— ■- 490. And you are accountant in the Works Department ? Yes. 
lo June, 1897. 49^ "\\r e find that no true financial statement has ever yet been got out in connection with the Water and 
Sewerage Board, no statement that shows exactly wliat the cost of the works has been to the country. We 
find that the interest that accrued on the moneys which had been spent from loan as the works were 
constructed, — some nine or ten years — that interest has not yet been debited to the capital sum, and we 
are anxious that you should get out a statement, in conjunction with the Water and Sewerage Board, as to 
what that amount really is, for unless we have that, we do not know what is the capital cost of the works to 
the country ? The question involved there would be the rate of interest too. 

492. Of course ? That would be a matter for the Treasury. 

493. I believe that is already got. We do not require it to the exact figure, but just a fairly accurate 
rough idea as to what that amount would be. We want to put before the Government, in answer to our 
Commission, an exact statement of the Water and Sewerage Debt, and against that should be put the 
interest on the moneys paid in by the Water and Sewerage Board. We want to find out what the country 
has really been paying for the capital during the time of the construction of these works, and during which 
time they brought in no revenue ? Yes. 

494. Up to the 30th of June, 1897? Yes. 



THURSDAY, 17 JUNE, 1897. 

JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., J.P., President. 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq., J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq., J.P. 
Isaac Ellis Ives, Mayor of the City of Sydney, further examined : — 
I. E. Ives. 495. President.] When you were here before, you were so good as to say that you would be prepared to 
*— — -* — — ■- give us a statement showing what the views of the City Council were in regard to the Water and Sewerage 
17 June, 1807. Board in its relation to the City Council. We shall be glad to have you put before us anything that you 
would like us to consider in connection with the inquiry we are commissioned to make ? Of course there 
is a great deal in connection with the Council and the Water and Sewerage Board that took place before I 
was a member of the Council at all, so that what I can say is not so much from personal observation as 

from 



SEWERAGE BOARD — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 21 

from the records of the office. I find that there were several resolutions carried, some as far back as !• E. Ives. 
April, 1893, and 1894, and one in 1895. I will hand them in. [vide Appendix,'] The Council ^~~~ A ~~~^^ 
has no fault to find with the members of the Board or with the manner in which their employees une ' * 
carry out their duties. Objection by the Council, however, is taken — (1.) To the extravagant con- 
stitution of the Board. (2.) To their unnecessarily expensive premises, and system of conducting business, 
which causes a correspondingly excessive expense to the general body of ratepayers. (3.) To their manage- 
ment of a service which is purely Municipal assessment, but in regulating the rate for which the ratepayers 
have practically no voice. This is not in accordance with the principle of British Institutions, which always 
recognises that taxation and representation go together. When the Metropolitan Water and Sewerage 
Acts were passed it was so far recognised that local control would eventually ensue, that special provision 
was made to accomplish such. The Council maintains that, inasmuch as in the past it did successfully and 
more economically than is being done at present manage the entire reticulation of City and Suburbs im- 
mediately adjacent, and that without unnecessarily heavy taxation, it has proved its claim to so manage the 
city reticulation at the present time, more especially as it has every means within its power of economising 
service, of supplying the necessary office accommodation at the Town Hall, which was built to meet such 
requirements, and above all of being in direct touch with its constituents under the Municipal Act, which 
affords that direct representation so necessary to a satisfactory management of a civic work of great magni- 
tude. The City Council is prepared at once to take over its legitimate share of the scheme as a whole, or 
the control of the reticulation only, leaving the main conduit and reservoirs in the hands of the Government, 
as is practically the case at present. A matter of great complaint, and, in fact, of as much grievance to the 
members of the Board as to taxpayers generally, is the right of veto of the Minister of Works, whereby 
the expensive deliberations of the Board's (paid) members are rendered nugatory and absurd. Such right 
of veto being exercised from the raising of an official's salary to the acceptance of a tender for supply of 
material, or services of the highest importance, after the due consideration of abody specially constituted by Act 
of Parliament to deal with the subject. The Supply of Water and Sewerage to the citizens must be admitted 
to be a work so closely connected with Municipal duty as to be inseparable therefrom, and a glance will show 
how unnecessarily mixed and expensive such services become when submitted to the control of any specially 
constituted Board apart from the Municipal Council. The streets and footpaths generally, and household 
sanitation, are among the principal items of Municipal management. But in these most important 
functions the City Council can only exercise a partial control, and the present Water and Sewerage Board 
a likewise partial authority. The Council issues its notices and summonses for filthy premises or other 
nuisances connected with household or other premises, but cannot immediately act in the matter of 
improvement, but in its notices has to inform those interested that amendments must be made to accord 
with regulations of the Water and Sewerage Board. The Council requires water for streets and gullies, 
and is dependent upon the goodwill and common sense of the Board for the same. The Council controls 
the streets formation, and yet is liable at any time to have its work interfered with by the laying of mains, 
which, if the work had been in the hands of the Council, would in all probability have been laid prior to 
the making of the streets. This causes a necessity for perpetual supervision and much correspondence in 
drawing attention to subsidences, improper reinstatements, and otherwise faulty work, which, though 
repaired without expense to the Council, still entails serious responsibility and watchfulness on the part of 
the Council's officers, and in nowise improves the thoroughfares in which it takes place. The difficulty in 
dealing with plumbers and others who open the streets and footways is also very great, much trouble being 
experienced by the paving branch of the City Council in ascertaining the names of those responsible for 
properly reinstating the footways, thus putting the Council and ratepayer to considerable unnecessary 
expense in doing the work and in the extra inspection of the thoroughfares and footways rendered neces- 
sary, whereas if permits were issued by the Council to open the thoroughfares a continual check upon the 
work would be available. Another matter of importance is that, whereas the Council has to incur the 
expense of assessment (in common with all the Boroughs), the Water and Sewerage Board obtains the 
whole of tl^e information without sharing the cost. This, of course, necessitates a most expensive and 
elaborate system of book-keeping, virtually duplicating the whole of the municipal rate-books, besides 
affording an opportunity for error of a serious character in consequence of such a system of copying. This 
is actually instanced by the fact of the large issue of summonses for overdue water-rates, as against the 
simpler and less expensive system of distraint, lest litigation should ensue upon wrong action. 

496. You have put it in brief, and I think we had better have copies of that before us to consider what 
questions we wish to put on it, and then, as you are very busy, you can let Mr. Palmer come and speak on 
your behalf ? After this week I shall not be so busy, and will be able to come myself. There is one matter 
especially I wish to draw attention to, and that is that they have the Municipal books to strike the Water and 
Sewerage rates from, and it leads to a great deal of confusion, because in striking a rate for this year they 
take last year's assessment. It costs the Council a considerable sum of money to get those assessments, 
about £1,200 a year, and the Water and Sewerage Board gets them for nothing. We might just as well, 
when issuing our notices for the City Rate, put the Water and Sewerage rates on the same form, and let 
all be collected at the one expense. It would make a very small difference to the expenses of the Town Hall, 
sending out a ratepaper with three lines on it instead of one. 

497. Do you think the Council would consider a proposition of this kind : That the Government sell you the 
water, keeping the main works themselves rather than handing you over any part of the main works 1 I do 
not think it would be proposed to take over any works except the reticulation ; they would not take over 
the dam for instance. 

498. Would you take your share of the reticulation and pay your proportion of the interest on the cost of 
the main works ? Yes ; that would be a fair basis to go upon. 

499. That could be easily arranged for — a proportion of the cost or so much for the water 1 Yes. You 
would have to take into consideration that some of the works have been more costly than there was any 
necessity for, in working out a basis of payment of interest on the capital outlay. 

•300. You would expect a writing off, just the same as the country towns water debts have been written 
down ? Yes. 

501. We will consider this and write out the questions we should like to have answered, so that you may 
have time to consider them 1 I shall be glad to do so. I should like to add that the Town Hall was built 
•with a view to accommodating all this work, and the southern side of the Hall is wasted. It is overrun with 
women for all sorts of committees, and we would be glad to get rid of them. There is ample accommodation 
or the work there. . WEDNESDA Y, 



•*■= EOYAL COMMISSION OS METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 

WEDNESDAY, 30 JUNE, 1897. 
$r£0i;n;t: — 

JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., J.P., President. 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq., J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq., J.P. 

William Holmes, Secretary to Metropolitan Board of Water Supply and Sewerage, sworn and 

examined : — 

W. Holmes. 502. President.] What is your name ? William Holmes. 
•--"— A — — n 503. And you are secretary to the Water and Sewerage Board ? Yes, secretary and chief clerk. 
JO June, 1897. 504. You have given us a return, from which we have extracted information, showing that since 1891 there 
were thirty-one appointments by recommendation. We would like to know if the system of direct nomma- 
tion is adopted now ? It is in regard to some of the positions, but the clerical and engineering staffs, such 
as clerks, draftsmen, surveyors, and sanitary inspectors, are appointed after competitive examination. 
Applications are received for positions as labourers and mechanics, and some of them are I'ecommended by 
the members of the Board. They are noted on a list in the office, and appointments made from that as re- 
quired. All the higher ranks — the educated branches — are by competitive examination. 

505. Is that without exception ? Not altogether. Since the examination system came into force there 
have been five appointments in the clerical branch not by examination. 

506. What were they 1 Three of them were men who were taken on as temporary clerks for special work 
for about six months in the assessor's branch. They gave satisfaction during that time and proved their 
fitness, and the Board endorsed their appointments. 

507. Who recommended them ? I cannot say now, it is in the list supplied. Two others were engaged 
for special audit work in connection with the store books. They were engaged on that eight months, and 
as the work of the Board was increasing, some four or five years ago, and vacancies having occurred, they 
were retained because they had proved that they were good men, and an examination was not necessary. 

508. Then there are only five ? Yes. 

509. And that took place some five years ago ? Yes. 

510. Ever since that time they have all been appointed by competitive examination? Yes. 

511. Mr. Wilson.] If that is so there is something wrong with this return ? They are not all clerks that 
you refer to. 

512. The} 7 are not all clerks, but they are superior officers ? If you give me particulars I could tell you. 
The examination system is chiefly in connection with the clerical branch. 

513. President.] Can you give us a sample of the kind of examination thej 7 undergo both in the clerical and 
professional branches? Yes, lean. [Examination papeis put in.] 

514. Mr. Wilson.] The examination is conducted entirely by the officers of the Boai'd? I have always 
conducted the clerical examinations in conjunction with the late secretary, Mr. Bloxsome, and the 
accountant. There is no outside examination. We have not had an examination for eighteen months, 
not since I have been secretary. 

515. Have you considered the various proposals that have been made, by which the Councils would under- 
take the collection of the rates and the administration of the Department? I have considered the question, 
under three heads : — 

Eirst — The Municipal Councils to serve the ratepapers and collect the rates ; 

Secondly — The transfer of the works to the Councils ; and, 

Thirdly — Debiting the Councils each with a lump sum annually, as their proportion of the total 

expenses of the Board, including interest, sinking fund, maintenance, and management. I have 

made notes of the objections and difficulties I saw in carrying out each. 
First — The serving of ratepapers and collection of rates by the Municipal Councils — 

(1.) If the Board had to wait until the Councils' assessments were out and until appeal courts were- 

held, notices could not be served and rates got in during the half-year ; indeed, it is doubtful 

whether the notices could be served, in which case revenue could not be collected at all, as no 

demand would have been made during the half-year. 
(2.) Then there is the question of dual control — the officers serving two masters — the Board and the 

Council. 
(3.) If rates were not paid on first notices, who would serve final notices and summonses? 
(4.) Then the Councils' ratepapers are served only once a year, and the Board's are served twice, as. 

required by the Act. 
(5.) If rates were not paid and the Board was compelled to sue, it would require an officer to attend 

Court and prove service of notice, but the server, being a Council's officer, may not be available 

for Board when required. 
(6.) The Council's rate servers are frequently casual employees, not permanent staff, and might be in- 

another part of Colony when required to attend Court and prove service of notices. 
(7.) Board would still require district officers for identification of new properties, and properties 

becoming liable to new mains' and sewers ; also to report on probable revenue in connection with 

applications for new extensions. 
(8.) If the Councils collected the money for the Board they would require to increase their staff and 

would each demand a Commission, the aggregate of which, it is believed, would far exceed the 

expense under the present system. 
(9.) In the collection of water and sewerage rates, the Councils would not exercise the same vigilance 

as the Board, and consequently arrears outstanding would be large, unless some obligation were 

imposed on the Councils. 
(10.) While under the City Council, the water and sewerage rates outstanding far exceeded the 

arrears uncollected at the present time, although the total revenue now is considerably larger. 

Second — 



SEWERAGE BOARD MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



23 



■•Second — The transfer of the works to the Council — w - Holmes. 

(1.) Who is to be responsible for the maintenance of the works, and the carrying out of new extensions fTr ~~? ~„ 1 
v ' j i * „ i- t. j.- a 30 June, 1S97. 

and renewals from time to time s 

(2.) Who will provide funds for such renewals and extensions? 

(3.) The officers of the Councils are not competent to superintend and carry out such works, 

consequently each would have to appoint an inspector, which would mean fifty inspectors ; 

whereas the Board has one inspector and assistant to do all. 
(4.) Who would be responsible for the pumping mains, reservoirs, pumping stations, &c. ? If the 

Board, they would still require a large staff; and how would the cost of such stafi* be divided 

among the various Councils ? 
(5.) How will the proportion of cost of interest and maintenance of main conduit, reservoirs, ifec, be 

distributed among the various Councils, and how would payment be recovered? 
(6.) The same remarks would apply to sewerage. Each Council would require plumbing and drainage 

inspectors, and how would proportion of cost of main ducts be distributed ? 
(7.) If Councils had to carry out drainage connections, they would require competent surveyors ' and 

draftsmen, etc. 
(8.) To carry out this system would mean decentralisation, which is admittedly opposed to economy 

and efficiency, and contrary to the system now being perfected in London by the County Courted. 
(9.) If a break occured in a main in any municipality, and the Council neglected to repair promptly, 

the reservoir would be emptied and other districts deprived of water. Who would be responsible? 
(10.) Many cases occur where it is necessary to lay a main through a district in order to supply another 

beyond. Who would be responsible for maintenance, &c. ? 
Third : — Debiting the Councils each with a lump sum annually as their proportion of the total expenses of 
the Board, including interest, sinking fund, maintenance, and management — 
(1.) How would such proportion be arrived at? 
(2.) Would the municipalities supplied with pumped water be charged more than those with gravitation 

supply ? 
(3.) Will districts nearer the source be charged less than those further away ? 
(4.) It might perhaps be arranged on a population basis. 
(5.) Who would read meters ? If each Council read its own, fifty readers would be required, instead 

of five, as at present. 
(6.) If the Councils had to do this extra work, more clerks, and book-keepers, and accountants would 

be required, which would considerably increase expense, especially as the Board would still require 

a staff. 
(7.) This would mean decentralisation, which would cause heavier expense. 
'516. President.] Would it not shorten your work if the notices were only served once a year, with the 
instruction that, if the ratepayer thinks fit, it could be paid half-yearly ? Certainly, it would. 

517. What would that save? There would be only one service instead of two. It would save the service 
of 119,000 notices. 

518. Do you know whether there is any legal objection to it? That, I think, the solicitor should reply 
to. I think there is, because the Act says rates are due in advance on the first day of January and the 
first day of July in each year. But I could not say whether that would prevent the service of one notice 
instead of two. 

519. Putting the possible legal objection to one side, do you see any practical objection to it? No. If there 
were a new Bill it could easily be altered. We have considered that before, and we have thought it would 
be a good thing if it could be arranged. 

520. Is there anything you could suggest to us by which a more economical or better arrangement could 
be made, in regard to the management of the office ? I have thought over that, too. I do not know of 
anything. As I have said, we are always studying how we can reduce work and increase the efficiency of 
the Department, and wherever it has occurred to me I have brought it into practice. 

521. Do the members of the Board take any active part in the management of the Department ? No. 

522. They are simply a deliberative body who meet here in the Board-room 1 Yes. One or two are in the 
habit of coming on one morning a week, and the aldermen and others know they are here, and if there is 
anything they want to see about or get done they know where to find them. 

•523. Otherwise they do not take part in the administration ? No. 

524. It is left entirely to the President and secretary ? Yes. 

525. Mr. Wi!so?i.~\ I know that there is a good deal of night work carried on here. Does that apply to all 
branches ? No, chiefly to the accountant's and assessor's branches ; but it has been curtailed very much 
of late. Some time ago a great deal of work was done at night in writing rate notices. On my suggestion, 
eighteen months ago, the Board decided to call for tenders for doing this work. I fixed a liberal scale for it, at 
which I knew a good wage could be earned. Rather unfortunately somebody tendered about 40 per cent, 
below it, and having complied with the conditions and paid his deposit, and all the rest of it, his tender was 
accepted. The Board has learned that his clerks are under paid, and they have decided to take on clerks to 
do the work at so much per 100 — at the scale I fixed. We will take on three men, say, to-morrow, to do 
the work, and by and by two more, and there will be no contractor coming in to take the profits from them. 
Before that schedule came in there was nightwork, as we did not want to increase our permanent staff by 
putting on extra hands. The officers got no overtime for it, but Is. 6d. tea money each night. 

526. It is stated generally that the accountant's staff have excessive nightwork ? Not so much as the 
assessor's. 

527. It is in the accountant's and assessor's branches? That is it. 

528. What other branches are there? The engineer's. 

529. They could not assist? No. 

530. What other clerical branches are there ? There is the secretary's. As a matter of fact my men work 
at night. Nearly every second night in the week I take a bag of work home. 

531. The general opinion is that the accountant's and the assessor's branches are worked excessively at 
night, and what I want to bring out is whether the other officers assist them ? They would not know the 
work ; a stranger to the books would not know the work. These officers up here in my office have night- 
work 



24 ROYAL COMMISSION OX METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 

W. Holmes, work themselves, but in some cases their work is not of the same duration as that in the assessor's branch, 

. •"*-"—""> I must admit ; but even in the assessor's branch the nightwork has been minimised considerably since this 

30 June, lbJT. S j S i em f contract for writing the rate notices came into force. They have been working lately getting out 

returns for the Commission, aud there will be additional returns just now, preparing for the balancing and 

the annual report. After that there should not be any need for excessive nightwork at all. 

532. How much overtime do they work a week ? It varies. It is a good deal just now, but not long ago 
there was no nightwork, and we had nobody burning the gas at all after hours, almost up to the time when 
you commenced this inquiry. Since that, for the reasons I have stated, they have been working late, and 
now it is the end of the year and they must stay behind getting information for the annual report. 

533. In the normal state there is not much overtime ? ISo ; it used to be so before the system of contracting 
for the writing of the rate notices. I went into the matter and got out the amount paid in tea money, and 
recommended the contract system ; but, unfortunately, the contractor took it at a very low rate. However, 
I think the present jwoposal will work very well. 

534. President.] Are you satisfied with all the officers, with their conduct, and their capacity ? Not 
altogether. There have been one or two exceptions, but, as the President mentioned, they have been before 
him and have improved since. There is no cause for complaint now. There have been lapses on the part 
of some, officers, but after having been severely reprimanded and cautioned, they have mended their wa3 r s. 

535. What is your opinion regarding the pay of the officers of the Department ? I have always thought 
the heads of the branches are not sufficiently paid for the responsibilities placed on their shoulders. The 
junior officers are paid fairly. Until I became secretary the system was that juniors started at £52, and 
rose by yearly increasements of £13 to £3 a week. I saw that in a very little time we would have all our 
junior officers receiving £3 a week under that system, and I submitted a long report to the Board, and a 
set of new regulations, which they adopted, recommending that they should start at £25 and rise to £100, 
and beyond that be paid according to the value of the work performed. There would then be some incentive 
to the boys to work. 

536. When they get to £100 they stop? Yes. 

537. Then they have to wait for vacancies 1 Yes, or if they were found to be worth more they would 
probably get more important work and an increase of salary. 

538. How many of these juniors are receiving higher salaries than they ought to receive ? I have not gone 
into that. I do not say the evil has already happened because it was stopped in time. I saw that it would 
happen if left to go on. Some of the work they do is not worth £3 a week. 

539. Do you think that at the present time the juniors get no more than the character of the work 
justifies 1 I do not think they do. Taking it all round at present they are only fairly paid. The assessor 
gets £400 a year. Until last year he received £300 a year. Compared with officials in similar positions in 
other departments of the State, his salary is not commensurate with his responsibility. I think Mr. 
Kennedy is worth more. He gets £350 now. He was selected from a great number of applicants as a 
man of exceptional ability, and having a long commercial training and experience. I do not know another 
man better suited for the position he occupies. He watches every item of the Board's revenue and expen- 
diture. He has had only one increase of £50 since he joined the Board. 

540. Mr. Wilson.] About your own salary ? I do not think my salary is commensurate with my respon- 
sibilities compared with the salary Mr. Bloxsome received, £600. When Mr. Darley came here as perma- 
nent President, the positions of secretary and chief clerk were amalgamated and I was appointed. Then 
it went back to the old thing, the partial President, and I am practically doing the duties of the two offices, 
which were separate before. Then there is the natural increase in the business of the Department. My 
salary is £450. 

541. What does the accountant get ? £500. 

542. President.'] I suppose the accountant is under you ? Yes, the Board looks to me for the conduct of 
the whole of the administrative or non-professional business of the office, the engineering, accounting, and 
assessing right through. Twelve months ago, when the estimates were being prepared, the President spoke 
to me about my salary, and I told him then that I did not think it commensurate with the duties, but I 
had not been long in the position, and I said I was quite satisfied if he was satisfied with me, and I would 
rather that he did not just then recommend anything further, as I was young, and felt that I was getting 
on, but if the Board were of the same opinion in twelve months time I would be glad for them to 
consider it. 

513. Mr. Wilson.] You were on probation, in fact? Yes. I have been two years in the position to-day. 
The business is increasing every year, and we are working with one less than when Mr. Bloxsome was here. 

544. President] We drew Colonel Rowe's attention to the deficiency which took place in last year's 
operations — £20,000 ; and it was pointed out that that went against a very large surplus which had taken 
place on the transactions of previous years — £84,000. But if this deficiency goes on, and no steps are 
taken to check this deficiency, the accumulated surplus of previous years will soon be absorbed ? Then, of 
course, we are at liberty to raise the rates. The collections for the year ending to-day are £10,000 more 
than last year. 

545. To what do you attribute that, — to the dry season ? That is one reason. There will be a larger " 
meter revenue. There is also a natural increase through the extension of mains, but the capital will also 
be increased by that. I think the times are better, and the people have paid up better. I cannot yet tell 
wdiat the arrears outstanding are, but I think they will be less than last year, showing there has been more 
money, and people have been able to pay up better. 

546. What principle do you adopt in determining whether a certain reticulation should be extended ? It 
must pay 6 per cent. The revenue must give us at least 6 per cent, on the outlay. 

547. So that every extension means a decided profit to the Board ? We used to put it this way, 4 per cent, 
interest on the moneys, and 2 per cent, maintenance and expenses, roughly. 

548. If you had that it would not further increase the liabilities of the Board, — if that rule is adopted in 
every case, the tendency would be to keep the account balanced, to say the least ? Yes, but then we are 
still expending money on the main works, and very soon we will have the Centennial Park reservoir thrown 
on our hands, which will be a large additional capital with no extension of revenue. We had a very large 
sum of money debited to the Board for the Potts Hill Reservoir and duplicate pipe line, on which there is 
£28,000 for interest. That accounts for the deficiency of £20,000, for without that charge of £28,000 
there would be a credit, 549. 



SEWERAGE BOARD — MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. 25 

549. Mr. Wilson.] Do you ever take credit in your own books for gratuitous services performed by the W. Holmes, 
Board 1 We want permission to do that. We sent a letter to the Minister last week. •— ■~- A — — s 

550. You could do it with a mere book entry ? It would have to be debited somewhere if we took credit **" June, 18J7. 
for it. It would have to be voted. 

551. President.] I gather from what you say, that you think the circumstances which operated to produce 
the deficiency are now considerably modified, so that the deficiency would be decreasing? That £28,000 
will still have to be paid this year. It is carried on, and is not paid and done with. It is still a liability 
for this year, but if we could get credit for that £20,000 of revenue which we lose for that free water 
supply, there would be no deficiency. It is not like a rate on a building with a main running past it and 
the building not supplied, this is for water supplied to those institutions which we have had to pump and 
supply, and pay to supply it. We are just as entitled to be paid for it, as the Railway Commissioners are 
to be paid for passes. We cannot rate the railway premises. We cannot treat them the same as we do the 
Government buildings. We can put on a meter ; and the only water they use in many offices is for washing- 
clerks' hands and drinking, and that is a mere nothing. Those buildings are insured, and the water being laid 
near them would, I suppose, decrease the premium. In case of fire they would use the water, and yet they 
pay no rates. There is another matter. There was a special scheme of sewerage carried out from the Prince 
Alfred Hospital alone, and the cost of that is debited to the Sewerage scheme. We were some time ago 
about to proceed for the recovery of rates, and the Minister stayed our hand. They pay us nothing. 
There was a special sum expended for them. They have patients from all over the Colony, some of whom 
pay handsomely to the institution. 

552. Do you know the amount debited to you for that 1 Some thousands. Then there is nothing paid for 
watering the tram tracks. The Act says water for streets is granted free. The trams flood the streets 
with water. They make them quite sloppy. Then the City Council wash down the wood blocks at night. 
I don't think they do it now every night, because we called their attention to it during the drought, but 
they used to flood the streets. You could sail a small boat clown from kerb to kerb. 

553. Mr. Wilson.] Do you supply the fleet ? Yes. 

554. Do you supply foreign men of war ? Yes. 

'555. Why 1 It was considered a matter of good policy to do so. It is only a small thing. Her Majesty's 
ships only are supplied free, the Island pays =£125 a year. The Navy takes all sorts of care to keep down 
the consumption as much as possible. The merchant ships, of course all water at private meters on the 
wharfs. We have cut off the old supply at the Man-o'-War steps, where the men of war used to get 
their supply free. 

556. Is there any part of Colonel Rowe's evidence you did not quite agree with 1 I revised it and sent it 
back. One mistake he made was when speaking of the 3d. concession to large consumers. He said if 
a man used 19,000,000 he would run off another 1,000,000, so as to take advantage of the concession. 
That is wrong. I have cut that out. I think the large consumer should get a concession, and the 
manufacturers should be encouraged. Some of the asylums and charities have people from all parts of the 
Colony, and, as this work is to be debited pure and simple to the people of the city and suburbs, it is not 
right that we should supply water to these institutions unless they pay for it. The Railways will not 
carry us from here to Newtown unless we pay, and yet they expect us to give them services free. 



TUESDAY, 10 AUGUST, 1897. 

present: — 

JOSEPH BARLING, Esq, J.P, President. 

GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq, J.P. 

JAMES POWELL, Esq, J.P. 

John Moore Smail, Chief Engineer to the Metropolitan Board of Water Supply and Sewerage, sworn, and 

examined : — 

557. President.'] You have given us a statement of your officers and the work they perform ; we should J. M. Smail. 
like now a statement from you as to how they perform their duties, and as to whether any improvement ,— ^a— ^ 
can be made? I might say generally that the whole of the officers we have got here are efficient. I 10 Aug, 1897. 
cannot make any invidious distinctions. The inside staff of Water Branch consists of the assistant 
engineer, Mr. Cansdell, and the subordinate officers. I might say that the Secretary and I went through 

and found that instead of the engineer keeping a separate system of records we could amalgamate the 
records in the Administrative Branch. That took a lot of work off my clerks. 

558. That has been carried out since we began this investigation? Yes. 

559. Is that the result of our investigation ? No. 

560. But it has been brought about since we first began ? Yes. I suppose there is no doubt that this 
Commission gave rise to it. It released a clerk, Mr. Doyle. I had an officer in the Sewerage Branch — a 
relieving clerk named Long. He misconducted himself to such an extent that I could not recommend 
his continuing in the service any longer, and his services were dispensed with. Mr. Doyle, who is a 
junior clerk, took up the duties of relieving clerk, because there are times when the work becomes so 
great that I have to send a clerk to Crown-street, or downstairs to the Sewerage records, issuing plans. 
He goes to the different sub-branches, and it is a good training for him, as he will be in a position to take 
any little step above him that may become vacant. 

561. I see that in this list the staff is divided ; — do you divide the Sewerage Branch from the Water 
Branch ? Yes ; they are quits separate. They are charged to different votes. 

562. You do not use the same officers to carry out the work of both departments ? We keep the staffs 
completely distinct, as there is work enough for all of them. There is an assistant engineer for water 
supply, and there is also one for the Sewerage. It would be too much for one assistant engineer here. 
If I had only one assistant engineer I would have to give him two men to help him ; so for the present, 
at any rate, until the water supply is nearing completion (and we are always finding out some improve- 
ments to make in the reticulation or the trunk mains) , I could not certainly see my way to make any 
recommendation to the Board or to yourselves to amalgamate them. I have had it in my mind for some 
time, but I do not think I can fairly ask them to do it, because it would be asking them to do too much. 

563. You think the disposition of your officers cannot be improved ? Not for the present. 

278— D 564. 



26 



ROYAL COMMISSION 0:1 METEOPOLITAN WATEB STTPPLY AND 



J. M. Smail. 504_ Q an fa e organisation be improved ? I do not think it can be improved for the present. The onl y 
ioT""ct isQ7 wa ^ wou ld be as I say, by making one branch ; but, as they are charged, to different votes, it would cause 

a lot of confusion in the Account Branch in splitting up the vouchers. At present we have water 

vouchers and sewerage vouchers. 

565. Putting aside the advantage to the Account Branch of having the branches separated, would there 
be a saving of expense if they could be treated as one branch ? Not for the present. It might possibly 
be so in the future, because as you know we are pushing on the sewerage as fast as we can, and that 
takes the undivided attention of one officer, or else I could not attend to the work I do. Until the two 
approach partial completion I could not recommend any change, for I am sure it would not be efficient, 
and I am certain that in the long run it would not be economical. 

566. Now, as to the officers themselves? There is only one exception, and I am investigating that now 
It is the Assistant Inspector of "Water Supply, Mr. Playfair ; he is not conducting himself to my liking, 
at any rate ; but I am inquiring into that matter now. 

567. Have you reported that to the Board ? Not yet. 

568. Still there are circumstances with which you are not satisfied ? I am not satisfied. Take the whole 
of the inspectors ; the whole of them have come here purely on their own merits — many have come in 
under examination. When I took charge here first — that is, when I came over from the Works Depart- 
ment, I bad an idea that probably if we did not have an examination I might get some men with whom I 
would not be satisfied, so I recommended to the Board that all the technical men should come in under 
examination. I followed out, as near as possible, the system in the University in setting the papers and 
marking. I set the papers in the first instance and numbered them. The applications came to the 
Secretary, who conducted the examination right through and sent me the papers only, marked with 
numbers ; the papers were marked and sent back again, and I did not know the men until the next day 
when I saw the names on the list. 

569. That is, you set the papers, and the Secretary's Department conducted the examination ? Tes ; and 
when that was finished they sent me back the papers with only numbers on them; and I marked them and 
sent in a schedule ; probably No. 20 might be first, and No. 15 next, and so on. 

570. Did you set the whole thing ; — were you assisted by anyone ? I set the whole of the papers myself. 
I had no inspectors at all at the time. I had to start de novo, as it were. 

571. Did you do that with all the employees ? All the technical men. The only men who come in 
without examination are the pick-and-shovel men. 

572. Tou applied it to inspectors, and so on ? Tes. 

573. Were they able to undergo an examination of that kind ? Tes ; and subsequently when the work 
became too great I got the Technical College Plumbing School to take up the examination, and the last 
two inspectors we have appointed have passed their examination at the Technical College. They report 
to us the men that have passed the examination, and, subject to an inquiry as to character, they are 
appointed. 

574. Are there many men here who were in the employ when you took charge ? Of course, there are 
some men who were taken over from the Town Hall. 

575. Are they still here ? Tes ; there is one chief inspector and one assistant ; that is all. 

576. Only two men ? Tes. 

577. The others were all imported by yourself ? Yes. 

578. And everyone of them has come in as the result of this examination ? Tes ; and the same with the 
surveyors ; we put them through a practical test. 

579. Did you not get some from the Public Works Department ? Tes. 

580. They did not come in through the examination? No ; but they were pretty well tried before they 
came over. 

581. Can you tell me how many there are who have not come in through the gateway of an examination? 
Wood and Parkinson, the Water Branch Inspectors, w 7 ere here when I came. Of course, they did not 
pass the examination. In the Sewerage Branch Mr. Rhodes and Mr. Sewell came from the Town Hall; 
Mr. McKenzie and Mr. Clark were transferred from the Works Department : the latter has been dis- 
pensed with lately. All the others have passed the examination. 

582. With those few exceptions, everyone who has come into the Department has come in through your 
examination ? Tes. 

583. Do you find that it has been successful ? It has been a great success ; in fact, the same system was 
followed with the clerks afterwards, because it was found to be so successful ; and I can say this — that 
the members of the Board are very thankful that it was introduced because it enabled them to get rid of 
a good many who were importuning to get into the Department. 

584. Now, will you just give us your ideas with regard to the scale of pay ? I think a good many of the 
professional men are underpaid, but the Board think otherwise. I have recommended some, and others 
I could not recommend because I knew the Board would not pass them, but still it did not alter my 
opinion. For instance, I think the salary of the assistant engineer for Sewerage compared with the 
salaries of similar officers in the Government, and with the salaries I hear are paid by the Melbourne 
Metropolitan Board of Works, should at least be £550. I know the work he has got to do in the exten- 
sions to the western suburbs — the general reticulation and the administrative work — he has a good many 
surveyors and engineers to supervise. I must leave the immediate supervision out in the field to him, 
and he has the getting out of all the contracts, and we have to push the works so as to throw open the 
districts directly the Government Construction Branch transfer their works to us so as to get the 
revenue in. 

585. How did Mr. Griffiths come in ? He was recommended. When I formed the staff he was assistant 
engineer in charge of Sewerage at the Town Hall. 

586. Are you satisfied with him ? Perfectly satisfied indeed ; he is a very zealous officer. 

587. Mr. Wilson.'] Was not his salary increased last year ? No. 

588. President.'] With whom would you compare him in the Works Department ? I think their district 
Engineers get £550 and £575. I think Mr. Milner gets £575 ; he is the district engineer under Mr. 
Davis. Well, he has not the same amount of work to do. I know his work is not of the same detail 
character. We have to go more into detail than they have in the Works Department, and naturally it 
is more laborious while quite equal to it from a professional point of view. 

589. 



SEWEEAKE BOAED — IIIXTTES OF EVIDENCE. 



589. Now about the others ? Mr. Biggs is the next one. His branch — the House Drainage Branch — is J- M. Smail. 
really a revenue-returning one. When people apply for permission to connect, the applications are made .. n / T"~'''~^ > » 
downstairs, and every day they go up to Mr. Eiggs. Then the assistant inspectors, who have special 10Au §-> 
plans, go out and visit the properties, survey them, and then design the drainage on the ground, 

in accordance with the bye-laws. That has to be checked by Mr. Eiggs, and then, under his instructions, 
the draughtsmen prepare the sketches. Then Mr. Eiggs has to pass those, to see that they are in 
accordance with the bye-laws, and that the sizes of the pipes are right, and then, in my absence, he signs 
them. 

590. Tou charge a certain sum for that ? "We charge 5s. per house for that. 

591. Then for 5s. any householder can get complete plans of the connections he must make ? Tes, and 
then in addition to that the inspectors have to send in to me a certificate that the work has been carried 
out in accordance with the bye-laws and regulations of the Board. From that certificate an official one is 
prepared and given to anyone who has applied for the permit, and that is the guarantee that the work has 
teen properly carried out. The plumber has to guarantee the work for twelve months, and if anything 
occurs during the twelve months which on inspection is found to be attributable to neglect on the part of 
the plumber he has to put it right, but if attributable to the householder's neglect, then, of course, the 
plumber is not asked. 

592. I have heard many complaints that you impose an unnecessary expense on householders for connections 
and so on ? We hear many complaints, but wheu inquired into, we find there is no ground for them. 

593. They say that you impose upon householders an unnecessarily expensive system of connection ? In 
the early days we advised the people to get the plan and call for tenders, but some people, instead of 
calling for tenders, sent for the family plumbers without any tendering against them, and, of course, 
these men charged what they liked, and when the people got the bill they blamed the Board for it. There 
was a gentleman who wanted a little alteration to his bath-room ; in fact, he wanted one of those hot- 
water arrangements fitted. He called a certain plumber in, and then went away to the country to give 
the plumber the house ; when he came back he found that the plumber had reorganised the whole of the 
system without any instruction from the Board or from this office (it was on the old system) and then 
sent in a bill for £120. We are not to blame for that. We have always advised, "You get your plan, 
call for tenders, and do not pay the final payment until the plumber produces a certificate from this office 
that the work has been properly carried out," We formerly advertised that in the paper every quarter, 
and it is only lately that the people have seemed to become alive to the necessity for the certificates. 

594. Does that apply to both water and sewerage ? Tes. 

595. Now about the staff ? There is no one that I can single out for any special mention ; they are all a 
good, honest, hard-working set of officers. 

596. And with the exception of Mr. Griffiths, there are none to whose salary or position you wish to 
draw special attention ? Two of the district engineers get £350, and one £300. They generally have 
10 or 12 miles of sewers to look after. The sewers are ramifying everywhere. These officers have a lot 
of ground to get over, levels to take, returns to make, and have really got to be professional men. I 
recommended that two of these officers should get £25 each, but the Board would not entertain it. I 
think if Mr. Eiggs and the ethers referred to get £25 each it will be only justice to them. 

597. Are there any others ? No. 

593. Now, with regard to your relationship to the Works Department, are there any observations you 
would like to make ? I think that should come from the Board. 

599. Is the interworking between the two Departments economically carried on ? Of course while the 
present system exists we try to work economically. We cannot work more economically than we are 
doing, because the Works Department before they carry out any work generally get from us the openings 
and anj r other information necessary, so that we do not have to open any of our work, and they do not 
have to open any of theirs. 

600. Is it so arranged that there is no overlapping of work between the Works Department and yours ? 
There is bound to.be overlapping. When you have two departments carrying on practically the same 
work you cannot avoid overlapping. We try to avoid it as much as possible, but there are times when 
we cannot possibly avoid it — as a general thing we do not overlap. 

601. There is not overlapping to any serious extent ? Oh, no ; I look after that. 

602. There is no ground for any reasonable complaint as to the interworking between your Department 
and the Works Department ? No, but there is one thing that I think I mentioned to you before. 
Plans of a certain work were sent to us by the Works Office, and after going over the ground with my 
officers I suggested that the work might be carried out in a more economical manner. My officers have 
to go further into the details, and have to go over the district more thoroughly than a man simply running 
a main line sewer through that district. 

603. Tou go into all the back yards and little streets and so on ? Tes, the other officers would never get 
their work out if they covered so much ground. We suggested that a certain deviation should be made 
and that it would result in the saving of so much money. We had an object in that because we represent 
the taxpayer and have to study economy. I got a snubbing from the Works Department over it. It is 
on record that we are " asked for information and not for suggestions." I simply gave it as a suggestion; 
not that the Minister ought to or should carry it out, but merely that the lines might be altered in order 
to effect a saving. 

604. In what particular part was that ? As near as I can recollect it was on the Waverley or Eandwick 
slope, but the papers will show. 

605. Did it involve any large sum of money ? There was a saving of about £3,000. 

606. Tou recommended a deviation in their main lines ? I suggested. I do not know how the letters 
were written from the administrative branch, but my minute suggested that such and such a thing should 
be done. Of course I knew that the Minister was the constructing authority, and that any recommenda- 
tions would be considered, and so I put it as a suggestion. 

607. And you got a snub ? I took it as a snub. 

608. Was any reason given for your suggestion not being carried out ? Not that I know of. 

609. Tour suggestion was not given effect to ? I could not say. 

610. Is that work carried out ? That particular work is not being carried out yet. 

611. Was it a work affecting Waverley or Eandwick ? Well, it affected Waverley more pardc^arly. 

612. Where was the discharge ? Bondi sewer. . .- 

613. 



28 BOrAL COMMISSION ON METEOrOLITAN WATEB SUPPLY AND 

J. M. Sinail. 613. I thought all the main sewerage there had been carried out ? So the main sewers had been, but 

/ "7~ A "> there is a little dispute as to the line of demarcation between main sewers and the reticulation sewers. 

10 Aug., 1897. j -understood that when a sewer like the Bondi sewer was constructed through, then any trunks or 

subsidiary branches from that would be considered Board's work, coming under the section settled 

between Mr. Hickson and myself. 

614. Then do the Works Department contend that this particular part of the work which you call a 
branch is part of their work ? Tes. 

615. Has that been settled yet ? Tes ; it has been settled by the Minister carrying out the main branch 
for Eandwick and Kensington, which we had surveyed in this office. I am just waiting for them now in 
order to go on with the reticulation. I contend that that is a branch. 

616. Has that been carried out by the Works Department ? It is being carried on now. 

617. Is this the particular part that you object to ? No ; that is another portion. 

618. We want to know the portion to which there was an objection ? Between Eandwick and the Bondi 
sewer. It takes the eastern slope of Waverley. 

619. Is it your contention that that particular wwk should come under you ? Tes ; I think so. Once 
the main branches have been constructed by the constructing authority then I think that the reticulation 
sewers, the subsidiary brauches, can be more economically carried out by this Board. . 

620. I understand that there is one particular part of the work which you recommend should be carried 
out in a different way ? Tes. 

621. Tou do not know whether it has been done ? No. 

622. Can you identify it so that when we come to examine Mr. Davis we can find out? Well, if you say 
the drainage for the eastern slopes of Waverley they will know the papers. 

623. Are there any other circumstances which you should bring to our knowledge as to the rather 
unsuccessful interworking between you and the Works Department ? There is no unsuccessful working. 

624. It is unsuccessful if work is carried out which might have been done cheaper? I do not claim any 
special merit for this at all. It is merely that we have, by force of circumstances in carrying out 
reticulation work, to go more into detail, and consequently we must get a better grasp of the whole 
subject. 

625. To your knowledge are there any other circumstances of a like kind ? I believe there are, but I 
cannot tax my memory with them now. I can get them for you. 

626. It would be just as well if you would get them, because it is just these little circumstances of want 
of harmony that it is desirable to remove the causes of ? There is no inharmonious working at all. 
This was adopted. We showed that the thing could be done and it was adopted, but I wanted to show 
you that in carrying out the detail work we are in a position to grasp the whole thing, far more so than 
gentlemen connected with the Works Department, and consequently we are in a position to suggest 
certain deviations which would be more economical than tunnelling through a ridge. That was given 
effect to. 

627. Has it been given effect to in the first case you mentioned ? I cannot say in that case. 

628. But you have no reason to suppose that it may not be given effect to, notwithstanding the snub you 
received ? It may. 

629. Are there any other recommendations of a like kind which have not been given effect to? No ; I 
would rather mention those that have been given effect to, because I only want to show that the Board's 
surveyors and the Board's officers must have a more intimate knowledge of the work to be done, so that 
if the constructing authority under the present system would construct only the main branches and leave 
us the other, there could be consultations between the two branches as to where we want the openings. 

630. Tour contention is that the Works Department have taken up some of the works that you contend 
should be done by you ? Tes. 

631. Can you give us a statement of what those works are? Tes. Of course, it is only a matter of 
opinion. The Minister decided that this should be done, and so I dropped the matter. 

632. Still, the Minister decides on the evidence given to him in his Department ; he has not the evidence 
of your Department, and if it is shown to him that the evidence of his Department was not correct, no 
doubt he will be glad to be made aware of it, so you might give us a statement of those works which you 
think could be more properly carried out by you than by the Works Department ? Tes. I am only 
giving my opinion from the experience that we have had. 

633. Can you tell us whether you have been delayed at all in carrying out the reticulation by reason of 
delay in the Works Department ? Oh, yes ; there are 12 miles of sewers in the western suburbs which 
have been finished for over six months. 

634. There are 12 miles finished and lying useless by reason of the non-completion of the trunk works ? 
The non-completion of the outfall works at Arncliffe. 

635. Are those works proceeding now ? Tes ; they are pushing them on. Tou see, what we do is, we 
get from the Works Department as near as possible about the time they will complete (of course, we do 
not expect to a day or a week), and then we let our contracts so as to fit in, as it were, with them. I have 
arranged in my contracts so that I can take any section out of the contractor's hands and throw it open 
to the public ; then we advertise that and give the public a month to connect, after which we charge the - 
rates. 

636. What we want to find out is this : What delay there has been in carrying out the main works in 
connection with your subsidiary works ; — are there any others ? Tes ; we have got very nearly the whole 
of North Shore reticulated waiting for the outfall works. 

637. Is the reticulation quite useless there ? I cannot say it is quite useless, because we have brought 
them under a drainage rate. We do get some revenue from it, but not within 50 per cent, of what we 
would charge if connected. 

638. These drains are made available, to a certain extent, for running water into an open creek ? Tem- 
porarily. 

639. But only a portion of the reticulation is being used in that way ? Tes. 

640. Are you aware what is delaying the carrying out of the outfalfworks there ? Tes ; I think there is 
some difficulty as to the system of disposal. Of course, since that was settled the works have been going on. 

641. How long will it take before those works are finished ? I think it will be about twelve months. 

642. And the delay is due to the alteration of the design ? I do not say that. That is all done in the 
Works Office. I would not like to give any opinion about the delay. 643. 



SEWERAGE BOAE.D — MINUTES OP EVIDENCE, 29 

643. How long will it be before the outfall works at Arncliffe are finished ? I think it will be three J- M. Smail. 
months. I was down there some time ago. I do not think it will be sooner. z^^-— ^ 

644. And then the reticulation works will be brought into use? Tes. I might say that the Minister 10 Aug., 1897. 
sent down asking if the Board were of opinion that the subsidiary carriers should be constructed. "Well, 

if we carry out any more work there it will simply mean delaying the outfall works. We are increasing 
our reticulating works that are inoperative every day, and things are getting worse. I suggested that the 
Minister should be asked not to construct any more permanent works there, but to hand the works over 
to the Board, so that we can give the people the benefit of the sewerage and use the farm ; because we 
are closer to the residential area there than we are with the Botany farm, and there might be such a 
rumpus that we might have to change the system, and any subsidiary carriers might be thrown away. I 
thought we had better not add to the capital account until we saw whether the people took to it. "We 
can dispose of the sewerage by just simply plough-draining for a time, because, if they will object to the 
plough-draining, they will object to the sewerage passing along a concrete carrier. 

645. Are you referring to the operation of that syphon drain ? No. That is on Cook's Biver ; this is 
what we call Muddy Creek. 

646. If these carriers had been constructed it would have delayed the utilisation of the works? It would, 
in my mind. 

647. So you are resorting to plough-draining instead of treating it as you would have done with the 
carriers ? Tes ; we want to get hold of it. and really to put the sewerage on the sand, to prevent it 
blowing away. 

648. What do you do with the sludge ? Dig it into the ground too. 

649. You say the Works Department will have finished their work in three months? Tes. 

650. Then they will bring 12 miles of reticulation into use ? More than that. 

651. How long has it been lying idle? Getting on to twelve months. 

652. Are there any other parts ? No ; that is the crux of the whole question. 

653. Are there any other cases in which the Works Department has lagged behind your works except 
this ? No ; these are the only ones. 

654. Are you aware that efforts are being made now to keep up with you ? I can say this, that I think 
the Government Construction Branch are doing their best. 

655. So that nothing could be done to hurry on the works now? No ; they are going as fast as we are. 
If you put on too many men they are all crossing each other. 

656. So far as you are concerned now, everything is going on harmoniously between your Department 
and the Works Department? Tes. Of course the Minister now, as I say, sends down to the Board, 
asking their opinion before any works are constructed. I think that is only right, as we have to take 
them over and find the revenue for them. 

657. Are there not difficulties in regard to the storm-water sewers ; — is the Works Department not 
carrying out works which would not be approved by the Board ? No ; now they never carry out anything 
that is not approved by the Board. 

658. I think there is a considerable loss on those storm-water sewers ? Tes. 

659. Tou cannot levy more than 7d. in the £ ? That is the maximum. At some of the places it would 
take 15d. to make it pay. 

660. Are you in every case where it is necessary striking the maximum rate ? Tes. 

661. But you find the maximum rate is short by 9d. or 6d. ? Take Eushcutters' Bay — it is fully 15d. in 
the £, but we can only charge 7d. 

662. But when the works proper are carried out the capital cost will be merged in the general capital 
cost ? Tes ; that is the intention. 

603. Then you will levy a rate such as will pay the interest ? We will add the capital debt of the storm- 
water sewers to that of the foul-water sewers, and then strike a rate to carry out the whole. 

664. But these storm-water sewers are a necessary adjunct to the other sewers ? Tes ; of course we must 
have them m some places, but the Works Department has carried them beyond being an adjunct. If the 
storm-water sewers are above the foul-water sewers, they are of no use as adjuncts. These were 
constructed to carry away the stinking slops until such time as the Western Suburbs scheme was carried 
out. 

665. Still, it has been a benefit to health ? Prom Burwood and Strathfield we are getting complaints 
every day of the smell. Take a piece of land with'a tortuous stinking ditch through it. The Department 
come along and run a straight channel through it, and improve the man's land ; and this channel being 
like a barrel, any accumulation of gases in it come out at the top end. It is just like a gun-barrel. We 
have had to put in gas-interceptors here and there to prevent that. I think it would have been far better 
to have left it as an open concrete channel. We have now got to put up ventilating shafts. 

666. Tou have charge of the meter-readers ? Tes. The Meter Branch is under the engineer. There is 
one matter I think Mr. Holmes has mentioned to you — about two inspectors going into the same house. 
The only inspectors we have are the sanitary plumbing inspectors and the drainage inspectors. They 
are different men altogether. The sanitary plumbing inspector goes there, perhaps, a good time after 
the drainage inspector has done his work and cleared out. If the work were to be done with the one 
man, the staff would simply have to be doubled, so the men are kept separate. The plumbing inspector 
looks after the sanitary plumbing and the water fittings as well. We only keep two inspectors of water- 
fittings ; they have to look after the whole of this city and the whole of the suburbs. Of course, they are 
assisted by the turncocks, but the sanitary plumbing inspectors have to take as many as ten boroughs as 
well as the city. Tou know what sanitary plumbing is. They have got to go there probably ten times 
before they pass a job. I think there are four of those inspectors. 

667. The meter-readers are under your control ; have you anything to say with regard to them ; — can 
you suggest any improvement? No. I might say we are improving that every year. I have got a most 
excellent officer in Mr. Abseil. He has always got the Board's interests at heart, as well as the esprit de 
corps of his own branch. This branch only reads the meters ; the accounts go straight to the accountant. 
None of my officers handle money in any shape or form. Everything in the shape of money goes straight 
to the Account Branch. The charges are made in my office, and go to the accountant for collection. It 
is just the same with the Administrative Branch ; all letters are initialled by me, and go to the 
Administrative Branch to be sent to the public. 

668. 



30 



BOYAL COMMISSION OX METROPOLITAN* WATEH SUPPLY ASD 



J. M. Smail. 668. We should like to know how this meter-reading is carried on; — what cheeks are there? Each 

i"»~"-»~s meter-reader has a weekly book. He comes in every Saturday and compares his book with the meter - 

10 Aug., 1897. clerk, who has his ledger and can see whether there is any marked difference between the meter-reading 

for one quarter and the reading for another quarter. If there is any marked difference he sends a man 

to inquire, so that is a check. 

669. It is the same as the Gas Company's. Say the winter quarter of this year is very much less than 
the winter quarter of last year, then someone is sent to see that the meter is in order? Tes. We make 
sure first that the meter is correct. It may register too fast or too slow. After that the inquiry goes 
further, and we see if the readings are correct. 

670. The meter-clerk is under you ? Tes. The accounts are sent down to the accountant for collection. 

671. Does the accountant keep any account of the meter accounts ; — you keep the ledger accounts ? Tes. 

672. Is it duplicated ? They do not go into the detail, for instance a property owner may have a lot of 
properties, and the meter account is entered up against him in his account. We only show the assess- 
ments and the difference between the assessment and the meter accounts. It is necessary for us to make 
the accounts out. 

6/3. Mr. Wilson.] Have you anything to do with the recommendation of the turncocks' salaries ? Tes. 
There is no man gets a rise of a shilling unless I recommend it. 

674. Do you think that is a fair thing, £140? Tes. it is fair for the work they have to do. 

675. Do you not consider it too high ?. No, I do not. Tou see they have to be at the beck and call of 
fire brigades at any time a fire occurs. The outlying turncocks are all connected by telephone, and we 
have arranged with the Inspector-General of Police that if a policeman sees a main burst he goes to the 
watch-house and informs the man, and he goes out, no matter what time it is, and repairs the leak there 
and then. 

676. It is not very hard work ? But see the districts they have to walk over. 

677. I see sis of them get £33 a year for forage ? Take Alexander— he has, I suppose,, 200 to 300 miles 
of mams under him. He has the whole of your district — Petersham, Burwooa, and I think part of 
Ashfield. This £39 is to allow them to keep a horse and trap. They have to go round flushing their 
mains, and the stand-pipe and hose thev have to carry weigh about 30 or 40 lb. The men could not 
possibly do this. They had to do it, and I pointed it out to the Board that they should have a horse and 
trap, and now they get £39. 

678. There is a great deal of difference in the wages of the maintenance men ? There are different classes 
of men. Freehand is a plumber — that is the man who goes round and does the plumbing in connection 
with our mains. When we are putting down a new main we have to disconnect from the old and connect 
with the new. Then this man Whittaker has charge of the Eyde Hill Tank, and has to look after the 
pumping main between Eyde and Eyde Pumping Station. He has a residence, but has to pay for it. 
The other 7s. men are just ordinary maintenance men. The best of these men are taken off sometimes 
when we are short of foremen and gangers, and temporarily promoted, and when the work slackens they 
go back again to their old places. 

679. What about the men at £102 a year ? These men are on the canal, they get £8 10s. a month and 
a residence. They are a little less paid, but then they have not got so much work as the men about 
the city. 

680. They are just ordinary labourers, I suppose ? Just ordinary labourers. 



Melbourne Green, Accountant to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, called, and 

examined : — 
M. Green. 681. Mr. Wilson.'] What were the arrears at the last report? £43,000. 
^w*_— • v, 682. Are they increasing or decreasing ? They are increasing a little this year. 
10 Aug,, 1897. 683. How are they compared with three or four years ago ? They have considerably increased the last 
two years, because of the land rates. The land rates on vacant land are very difficult to get in. 

684. Are they more difficult to get in now than before ? The vacant land was not rated. 

685. According to the statement furnished us, in December, 1894, they amounted to £27,000, and on 
30th June, 1896, they had increased to £38,000 ; — that is serious, is it not? Well, there is a good deal 
of it land and a good deal of it charities. 

6SS. I thought the churches and charities got it free? No ; the churches do not get it free. They are 

charged, but it is not collected, on account of a decision by the Board. The Government rates were 

£1,100; meter accounts, £13,000; churches and charitable institutions, £6,600. 

687. Is there any discrimation exercised in pushing for these arrears ? Five thousand summonses have 

been issued every year. 

6SS. Is there any possibility of favouritism being shown in these summonses ? Not that I know of. 

6S9. Are there any officers or members of the Board in arrear ? I do not know. 

690. Who does know ? Mr. Beaumont, the assessor. Every year I send a statement up to the secretary 
of all the arrears outstanding, and he is supposed to send that to the assessor for a report. In going 
through the books if we see a large amount of arrears- outstanding on any premises we send the secretary 
up a minute to that effect, and it is reported upon by the assessor. 

691. The examiner is supposed to carry on a continuous audit, is he not? Tes. 

692. What relation has he to your branch ; — has he a right to call for any information ? Tes, any books. 

693. He has free access to the books ? Tes, except those that are actually in use. If he wants to look 
at those he sends a clerk down or looks after that himself. 

694. Has he occasion to call upon your officers to extract information for him at times? No; he does 
that himself. 

695. He has the right to free access to your books and to call for any information? Tes. 

696. And he gets it ? Tes. The clerk that he has used to be with me as a checking clerk — as a protec- 
tion to me — for of course I cannot check everything myself. 

697. Of course, you look upon Mr. Kennedy as a protection to you against the other officers? Tes, I 
think so ; and if I see that there is any work which has not been checked I call attention to it. With 
reference to the checking of course if I am to be held partly responsible for any defalcations that occur 
is it not necessary that I should have someone to check the details, or that I should have some little 
control over the examiner to see that his work is kept up ? 698. 



SEWERAGE BOAED — KINUTES OP EVIDENCE. 



31 



698. That is to say, the examiner's work might get into arrears, and that would facilitate fraud ? Yes. M - Green. 

699. Of course the accountant is supposed to exercise the necessary checks in his own department ? '"— ~ » 
Yes; but of course I cannot do it without a staff. 10 Aug. ,1897. 

700. President.'] Your idea is that the examiner's staff is practically your staff to check the accounts ? 
Yes. 

701. But you do not contend that the examiner should be under your control? No. I think the 
Examiner ought to report direct to the President or secretary, but at the same time I think I should have 
a little guidance over him to see that the work is kept up. Supposing a defalcation were to occur, who 
would be responsible ? 

702. Mr. Wilson.] You would be primarily responsible, and the examiner would be responsible if he 
allowed his work to fall into arrear, and should have discovered it but did not ? Then where is my staff 
protect me ? 

703. That is for the Water and Sewerage Board to say ;— you must make representations to them ; — ■ 
when you talk about the examiner's work falling into arrears, how long would it be in arrear? "Well, 
suppose it was in arrear three months? 

704. Has it ever been in arrears three months ? Some time ago it was in arrears twelve months, but not 
lately. That was three years asro. 

705. What was the reason ? He had not sufficient staff, and he had to do a lot of back work. He was 
going right through from the start. 

706. lias he a stronger staff now ? Yes. 

707. And is he often in arrear now ? No ; he is not in arrear at all. 

708. So that the question you raise is entirely a hypothetical one ? Oh, no. I say that supposing any- 
thing occurred I consider that I would be responsible to a certain extent. 

709. You are certainly primarily responsible ? It is only by watching that the examiner and his staff 
are keepiDg up this check from day to day that I am protected. 

710. However, yon do watch that ? Yes. 

711. That is all right ? Do you think that is sufficient ? 

712. He is there primarily to protect the public purse, but incidentally he protects the accountant? 
Yes. 

713. But he does not relieve you of responsibility? No ; but at the same time for my protection I point 
out when his work is not done as it ought to be done. 

714. I think you should point that out to the President or secretary, but I do not think you have any 
control over the examiner. If the thing were serious you should draw attention to it? As a matter of 
fact most of the checks in this Department I have instituted myself. I had that checking clerk under 
my control and then he was transferred to the examiner to do exactly the same work that he had done 
with me. That was done because I went through this checking work day after clay, and the examiner 
came round afterwards in, say, a month, and did it over again with his staff ; and so as not to duplicate the 
work the clerk was transferred to him. 

Sworn before me, this nineteenth day of August, 1897, — ■ 

G-. A. Wilson, J.P. 



Thomas Kennedy, Examiner of Accounts and Auditor to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage T. Kennedy. 

Board, called, and examined : — ,/T^* - ^^ 

n lOAug.,189/. 

715. Mr. Wilson.] As examiner, you know all about the arrears of rates, I suppose? No; I do not 
know all about them. 

716. Does not that come within your work ? No ; that would be the accountant's work. I might explain 
that the assessor makes all the charges, and those are debited to the accountant. He charges himself 
with that revenue to be collected, and as the money is collected so he credits himself with it, and the 
difference is the amount owing in the aggregate, but the rate ledgers should agree with the aggregate in 
the accountant's lists. I never had the staff to go into that. 

717. Do you consider that that should be within your jurisdiction? I should think that that would be 
one of the most important things for me to take up. 

718. President.] Has that never been done ? No. I might say that the collection of the revenue is done 
now under the system recommended by the Treasury Inspector that was last here — that is, so as to prevent 
double payments, the ledgers are posted at once simultaneously with the receipt of the cash. The calling 
back and checking of it is done after the day's work is over, and compared with the cash-books. All the 
particulars are entered in the cash-books. 

719. Mr. Wilson.] That system has materially reduced the double payments ? Yes. 

720. It was a great source of trouble ? Yes. Of course, in connection with the refunding of payments, 
it has always been my aim to see that we had received it twice over before we refunded the money. In a 
great many instances people have made mistakes, and paid money on the -wrong property. When they 
have come for the money, I have put my foot down, and Mr. Bloxsome and I have had a great deal of 
unpleasantness over that. I said, " If we refund these rates now, what guarantee have we that the proper 
people will pay them ?" I did that to ensure the proper collection. 

721. Is your position a quite independent one here ? It is, and it is not. It is unpleasant at times. 

722. Is there any attempt to obstruct or intimidate you in any way ? No. 

723. How is it unpleasant ? It is unpleasant with the obstructions I have received from the officials, 
principally in the Account Branch. It has been very unpleasant at times down there, but we have 
managed to get over that trouble. 

721. What was the nature of the obstruction ? They have been manifold. In not giving enough infor- 
mation, more particularly in connection with the refunds. 
' 725. Is all information you call for not available for you? Not at the time. I have had to get it after- 
wards. They do not give me enough information on the claims. 

726. So that you feel that you have not got sufficient help from the Account Branch ? No. 

727. Mr. Poioell.] You mean there is a passive resistance ? Yes ; a sort of passive resistance. We have 
always obtained it, but it has always been the means of wasting a lot of time. 

728. Mr. Wilson. In the end you get what you want, but it has always required an expenditure of time 
and energy? Yes. 729. 



32 



EOYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WATEE SUPPLY AND 



T. Kennedy, joy TThat is the precise limit of your duty and power? I deal with all vouchers tliat are passed for 
*~*~*~^~ s n payment of claims of every description. They have to pass through my hands, and they are not paid 
10 Aug., 1897. U11 til I sign them. I deal with contracts of every description, and advances in the same way. 

730. Tou frequently call for information which you do not get ? It is sometimes very difficult to get. 
Of course I get it in the end ; there is a great improvement latterly to what it used to be. 

731. How do you mean? They see the necessity for facilitating • the work and giving the necessary data 
on the papers before they reach me. 

732. "When did they commence to see that? It has been going on slowly. 

733. Tou think it ought to be within your jurisdiction to look into the question of arrears ? Tes, in fact 
I have made a start and am sending in a report to-day in connection with over-payments. The rate-ledger 
keeper should take out his aggregation of balances standing at the debit of all the rate numbers, and it 
does not agree. 

734. Have the Treasury Inspectors ever gone into that question? They have only gone into the question 
last time, and it was so confused that the Treasury Inspector left it in my hands to straighten, and I sent 
him a report showing where the differences existed, but I do not think they have gone into the question 
since. I do not know. 

735. It would be the accountant's business to go into that ? Tes. 

736. President.'] I think you said that it would take such a great deal of time that it has never heen under- 
taken ? I do not think 1 said that. 

737. Mr.- Powell.] It has heen reduced ? Tes. 

738. Mr. Wilson.] It is hardly worth the trouble ? It would be a great expense. 

739. The proper thing would be to reconcile that by an entry and to see that it was kept balanced in 
future ? If next year's difference is the same it will prove that the work during the year has been done 

. correctly. 

740. President.] The mistakes will be gradually found probably ? They might. 

741. Mr. Wilson.] It may or may not come out? There is a doubt about it. Of course there are over a 
hundred- thousand entries. The system is very simple in connection with the rate-ledgers downstairs. 

742. The aim now will be to keep things correct and carry the balance forward and see that there is the 
same discrepancy next year ? Tes, that will be proof enough that the work has been done correctly 
during the year. 

743. Mr. Powell.] I suppose the difference between you and the others is that you look to the property 
to pay the money ; persons come and say that they have paid it in mistake, bat you say that it is the pro- 
perty that pays ? Tes. I say " it is not a part of our business to find out whether the right person has 
paid." If they come and present the paper we take the money from them. That is reduced to the 
minimum now. In connection with the over-payments there is a difference between the books that are 
kept and the amount standing to the credit of what we call the " Overpayment Account." 

744. Is it much ? Over £200. Some of it is refunded and others transferred and the amounts removed. 
Sworn before me, August ISth, 1897, — 

J. Barling, J. P. 



Herbert James Beaumont, Assessor to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, sworn, and 

examined : — ■ 

H. J. 745. Mr. Wilson^] The arrears on 31st December, 1894, amounted to £27,000, and eighteen months 
Beaumont, afterwards had increased to £38,000 ? Tes. 

' -^—n 746. Can you account for that ? Tes. I think you will find that in the half-year ending June, 1896, we 
10Aug.,lS97. had a dry season, and the consumption by meter was about £7,000 or £8,000 over and above the corres- 
ponding period in the previous year ; and of course the meter accounts do not become due until the 30th 
June, and I had no opportunity of collecting these arrears until after the year had expired. 

747. Therefore some of this would come in the next year ? Tes. And then there is another thing — the 
churches and charities, which the Board are not pressing for rates. That is accumulating. Although the 
actual rates due upon house property and land, which are the properties which we have some opportunity 
of recovering rates upon, are getting less and less every year, the arrears upon churches and charities are 
increasing every year. 

748. And it is at the express wish of the Government that you do not press those charities, I believe ? 
That is so. 

749. What steps do you take ; — is there any discrimination exercised in pressing those claims on private 
people? None whatever. As they appear on the books so the summonses go out ; only in the case of 
property lists, before we take proceedings against the tenants, we give them seven days' time. 

750. Tou do not exercise any discrimination in favour of anybody ? No. 

751. Not as regards the people connected with this Board — the officers and members of the Board ; — are 
any of them in arrears for rates ? Not one, to my knowledge ; not one single one, that I know of. 

752. Tou do not know one ? Not one, that I know of — neither a member of the Board nor an officer of 
the Board. 

753. There is no favouritism at all ? No. 

754. It has been stated, and is pretty commonly accepted outside, that officers are in arrears, and it is 
only fair, if you are correct, that it should be stated in evidence ; — it is only fair to the officers ? There 
is not one, that I am aware of. I know that in past years one or two have been in arrears, and I have 
sent the accounts up to the paymaster and they have been knocked off their salaries. 

755. Tou do not know any single officer who is in arrears ? Not that I know of at the present time, but 
I will certainly look it up and see. 

756. Statements are made very freely outside, and it is only fair that they should be corrected ? Cer- 
tainly. I have no recollection of them. 



MONDAY, 



SEWERAGE BOARD — MINTJTEB OF ETIDENCE. 



33 



MONDAY, 16 AUGUST 1897. 
;prt0mt: — 
JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., J.P. (President). 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq., J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq., J.P. 
William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, further examined :— 

757. President.'] Have you given us all the returns that we asked you for ? I think so. w - Holmes 

758. Is there anything else you have to tell us which you think we ought to know ? No, I cannot think 16 'T*^^' 7 
of anything ; the range of questions has been so exhaustive that I do not know of any fresh matter. Of u °" 
course, on discovering that certain officers were in arrears I wrote that second letter to you, stating that 

there were officers in arrears for rates at the time the question was asked, but had since paid up ; as I 
thought that half the truth was worse than a lie, I wrote to you right off. 

759. Mr. Wilson.] Are these all the officers in arrear ? We deal with numbers, not names. In many 
cases we do not know who the owners of property are, but as far as we know, as far as we can tell, those 
are the only officers in arrears. 

760. Of course this is a small thing. Can you tell us why officers should be allowed to have two and a 
half years of arrears ? Of course it was quite unknown to me and to the assessor. 

761. The assessor himself is in arrears ? No ; that is his brother, not himself. I told him he should have 
informed me of the fact that these officers were in arrears when the question was asked. He did not 
know of that when under examination. I have called for a report as to why these arrears were allowed 
to accumulate and what steps have been taken to recover. In the case of Mr. Kennedy, of course it is 
explained that they were arrears owing by a lessee, a Dr. Paterson, who took the house from him. 
Dr Paterson was in a considerable time, and his arrangement was that he should pay the rates and taxes, 
which he failed to do. The Board served a notice, and took proceedings against him and got a verdict, 
hut before they could put in execution he went to West Australia. Now, Mr. Kennedy has to pay these 
arrears, and we will not accept payment of the current rates until he pays the arrears also, and he has 
been trying to get the money from the doctor. He has now paid the rates, but I told him he ought not 
after his explanation, which was quite sufficient. As to the others I do not know the reason ; but an 
explanation has been called for. 

762. President.'] Do you think there are other persons who are in arrears and who ought to be reported 
to you ? I do not think so. The only way to find it out would be to question each officer. 

763. Mr. Wilson.] Could not you tell from his account? We do not know who the householders are 
among the officers, whether they are tenants or owners, or whether they pay rates or not. We do not 
know sufficient about their private affairs. The only way is by questioning each one, but I do not think 
there are any others. I cannot say for certain, but I do not think there are. 

764. President.] Seeing that this escaped your attention, might there not be others, not officers, who 
would try to get influence to get their accounts passed over ? I have come across instances of that. 

765. Mr. Wilson.] Suppose, for instance, some influential householder is friendly with your district 
assessor, would it not be' possible for the assessor to let that man pass ? There would have to be collusion 
between two or three officers. There would have to be collusion between Mr. Eraser of the accountant's 
branch, the man who supplies the list, the summons clerk, and the district clerk — three officers — before 
that could happen ; but in these cases the three officers were district clerks themselves. 

766. President.] These are the men concerned in the collecting of the money ? Tes. I look upon it as 
very reprehensible indeed in their cases, as I consider that they should be the first to pay, seeing that 
they have to collect from the outside public. 

767. Do you not think it would be well to look through all the others outstanding to see if there were 
persons using their influence to evade payment of rates ? The assessor assures me there are none who 
are using influence to evade payment. I had the summons clerk up, and I asked him particularly whether 
there were any others, and he said " No," he knew of no others. 

768. So far as you know you believe that this shows the true state of the case ? Tes. 

769. So far as you know, too, there are no persons who have been shielded from pressure as to the 
payment of their rates ? No ; I know of none. 

770. I think Colonel Eowe explained that some of the poorer people whom it was not worth while to sue 
were allowed time ? Tes, heaps of those ; in fact, every day I have people come up to me, and I make 
the best arrangement I can with them, and most of them pay by instalments as low as a shilling or two a 
week — just whatever they can pay. Some of them come and say, " I cannot pay, will you give me time," 
and if 1 find, after making inquiry, that it is a genuine case, I make some arrangement for them to pay so 
much a week or so much a fortnight, and they generally keep to their payments. 

771. Mr. Wilson.] Have any appointments been made since this Commission came into existence ? I do 
not remember any just now. We have had an examination for two engineering draftsmen last week, and 
I have sent you along copies of the examination papers; but they are not reported upon yet. They are 
going to Professor Warren at the University. I cannot think of any appointment, except it might be in 
the lower ranks. 

772. If any appointment has been made it has been by examination ? Tes. I think there were two 
junior clerks put on in place of one or two who resigned since you commenced your work, but they of 
course have passed the examination. 

773. President.] I think that you said that the members of the Board took no active part in the manage- 
ment of the Department ? Practically none of the members take any active part in the working of the 
office. 

774. Simply the President ? Tes. 

775. He gives about half an hour a day ? The arrangement with him according to his appointment is, 
I think, from 10 to 1. 

776. And he gives that every day ? Tes. He was there when I came away this morning. Those are 
the terms of his appointment. He is frequently there till 2. He never goes away leaving anything 
undone on his table. 

777. I think you have a Board meeting once a week ? Always once a week. We have a special meeting 
to-morrow to consider the new Bill. 

278— E 778. 



34 



eotax coinrrssroN on meteopolitan wateb seppey and 



W.Holmes. 778. Mr. if ikon.'] Colonel Bowe says — " It varies very much. I frequently go there at 10; my proper 
tr7^~^~q- i™ 6 is 11 "? - B - e ^ as not anT ^ xe & hours. He stays until his work is finished. 

g '" ' ' 779. What is the status of the examiner as regards the accountant ? He is an auditor over the accountant. 

He audits the accountant's books, and, in fact, all books right through the Department, whether expenditure 

or revenue, and also examines all accounts. 

780. Does he deal with arrears in any way? 'No. 

781. But is not that portion of an auditor's business ? It is not his. He sees that the amount shown 
there as arrears is all right, but he does not have anything to do with getting them in. 

782. Having a continuous audit in the office, there is great liability to friction between the auditor 
and the accountant ? There is ; there is no doubt about that., 

/S3. There is friction ? Tes. Of course when a man is always pulling another up saying, "Here, you 
will have to get authority for this. Tou have exceeded," and is continually finding mistakes, there 
must be a little friction ; but this feeling is not carried outside the office. I must say the examiner does 
his work in a very fearless way. If we have exceeded the limits allowed by the Board" he pulls us up even 
if it is only a Id. or 2d. The engineer and he are frequently at loggerheads. The engineer says, " Oh 
jou are not a professional man, and you cannot interpret the specification properly." There is continual 
friction that way. He certainly has saved the Board hundreds of pounds. I can say that without any 
hesitation. 

7S4. President.'] Do you think his position requires strengthening at all ? I think it might be strengthened 
if he had a better salary. I always look upon him as underpaid. 

785. That is to say tacitly it would give him a better position ? It would improve his position. 

786. But, so far as office control is concerned, he has got all the control and authority he needs ? "We 
give him full authority. The other day I had an instance of where he was delayed. He could not get at 
some books that he wanted. I think they were overpayment books from the accountant's department. 
He reported it to me, and I sent for the offcer concerned, and told him forthwith to give every information, 
and let the books be given up at once, and pointed out that the great virtue of the audit is" in the books 
beingavailable at any time they are wanted. If he has any difficulty at all he comes to me. The books 
were in use at the time. 

787. He has given every satisfaction ? Every possible satisfaction. There is no doubt about it, he is an 
excellent officer. 

788. What was the dispute between the Board and the Councils about the bonds ? I sent you a copy of 
the minute. We do not lay water mains anywhere unless we get 6 per cent. Well, in some cases the 
residents are very anxious to get the water, and are continually importuning the Board to extend the 
mains ; and the Board instituted a system of guarantee bonds. It is not a Council's bond ; it is an 
individual bond by a ratepayer and two sureties. If a man wants a main extended along his street, he 
must guarantee the deficiency. If we want £5, and the revenue along the street is £2, we ask the man . 
to guarantee the £3. The main is laid, and at the end of the year we credit them with all the revenue 
from that street, and then charge them with the deficiency. At Hurstville, they have been trying to get 
the Board not to enforce the guarantees. I have made inquiries, and find that two or three of the 
guarantors, or sureties, are aldermen, and it would appear that they are trying to get the Council to pass 
resolutions to induce the Board not to enforce the guarantees. They have* got the idea that the surplus 
in some streets would balance the deficiency in others. I went into that matter, and I have charged up 
each borough with a proportion of the cost of the main works on a population basis, and I think there 
are only two or three that pay more than 3| per cent. I showed that if the City were taken out, and 
each borough taken separately, some of them would not pay more than 1 per cent. Hurstville is '99 
per cent. 

789. Are there any other boroughs that object to it ? Tes. We had a petition about three months 
ago from the Mayor of Leichhardt, on behalf of sixteen or seventeen other municipalities, stating that 
their boroughs, as a whole, would pay more than the amount required. I have shown now, in this return, 
that they do not do anything of the kind. 

790. Mr. Wilson.] How do you enforce these guarantees ? We proceed in the same way as for recovery 
of rates. There are one guarantor and two sureties, who are jointly and severally liable. Very often 
there are a dozen people concerned, and they divide the difference between them, when it becomes only a 
small thing. If the City and two other boroughs were taken out, the rate for the remainder would have 
to be Is. in the £, instead of 7d. 



TUESDAY, 17 AUGUST, 1S97. 

present: — 

JOSEPH B ABLEST Cr, Esq., J.P. (Pbesedeut). 
GEOECrE ALEXANDEB WTLSOjST, Esq., J.P. 

Joseph Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Public Works Department, sworn and examined : — - 

J. Davie. 791. President.] We have had Mr. Srnail before us in connection with the Sewerage Construction Works, 

/ — ~j^«^ which are under the Board, and one or two points have arisen in his examination which touch on the 

17 Aug.. 1897. relationship of the Board with your Department. But, first, there is one point on which I would like a 

little information. I think you know pretty well what rate of pay their engineers get? Xes, I think I 

know. 

792. Can you tell me how their salaries compare with the salaries paid in your branch? The Assistant 
Engineer gets £500, and he occupies the same position as Mr. Milner does with me, and, I think, Mr. 
Milner gets £525.* 

793. Mr. Smail said he believed your district engineers got £550 and £575 ? I think my -district 
engineers would be rather under his. One of my district engineers gets £400 — only one; the rest get 
£350 

# Note (on revision) : — Since giving this evidence, I have had an opportunity of refreshing my memory by reference to 
the Estimates, and I find that Mr. Milner is in receipt of £450 per annum, not £525. My opinion, nevertheless, is not 
changed as to the relative value of the duties performed by Mr. Milner and Mr. Griffiths. 



SEWEEAGE BOAED — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 35 

£350 and £300, and down as low as £250. I do not think his go down lower that £300. I am not sure J. Davi 3 . 
on that point. ,— A — — v 

794. Mr. Griffiths gets £500 ? He would correspond with Mr. Milner, and he gets £525, but Milner's 17 Aug., 1897. 
responsibilities would be very much greater than Griffiths'. 

795. So there is good reason for the difference ? Yes. With regard to the district men, I think my men 
are paid much less than his. 

796. Tour idea is that your men are actually paid less than his, comparing work for work ? The work 
done by my men is very much more responsible than that done by his. 

797. His assistant engineer gets £500, yours gets £525, but you say his work is much more responsible 
than that of Mr. Smail's assistant ? Certainly. 

798. In what way ? At the present time he has got under his supervision £250,000 worth of work — 
that is, he is responsible to me for £250,000 worth of work. At the present time that is being carried out 

_ in the city and suburbs ; and for that he gets £525. I do not wish, to underrate Mr. Griffiths at all, I 
merely state the fact. Mr. Griffiths, on the other hand, is carrying out the reticulation, which you might 
say at so much per yard, in the same way as you buy cloth. What you do in one chain you have to do in 
the nest, from one end to the other. 

799. Now the district engineers ; — they have two at £350, one at £300, one at £156, and one at £136. 
How would those salaries compare with yours ? One gets £400, I think, one £350, and they range from 
that and £300 down to £250. These men all have charge of large contracts— three or four large 
contracts. 

800. Mr. Smail's surveyors run— one at £300, sis at £234, one at £187, and one at £52 ;— how would 
they compare with yours ? They get precisely the same pay as far as the £235 is concerned. That is 
what we give to surveyors that are engaged in preparing works for contracts. The salaries that are 
above that are paid to the detail survey men, so that the same rate of pay rules in both branches. 

801. In fact it is pretty well the same ? For the same kind of work the same pay is given — £235 a year. 

802. Now, Mr. Smail has got two draftsmen at £300, two at £200, four at £156, one at £151, one at 
£136, and two at £130 ; — would that be about the same pay as yours get ? Yes. 

803. So that where the difference is is in connection with your assistant engineer ? Tes. 

804. Tour assistant engineer would get more than his assistant engineer ? Tes. 

805. And you contend that the work he has to do is very much more responsible than that which Mr. 
Smail's assistant does ? Tes ; inasmuch as he has to supervise, at the present time, contracts estimated 
to cost a quarter of a million of money. For that £525 a year is not too much. 

806. In our esamination of Mr. Smail the question was asked — " Is it so arranged that there is no over- 
lapping of work between the Works Department and yours?" He said, " There is bound to be over- 
lapping. When you have two departments carrying on practically the same work, you cannot avoid 
overlapping. We try to avoid it as much as possible, but there are times when we cannot possibly avoid 
it ; as a general thing we do not overlap." Then the question was asked — " There is not overlapping to 
any serious extent ?" and he said, " Oh no. I look after that." Do you admit that there is any over- 
lapping ; you see it is not to any serious extent ? No ; I do not see how any overlapping can occur. 
Take the levels ; we collate any work we do and that is available for the Board, so that they need not go 
over any ground after we do. We establish the bench-marks and they are put at the disposal of the 
-Board, and when they make their surveys, which are quite independent of ours, they use these bench- 
marks. With regard to the detail survey work, that is done principally for them, as you are aware. 
Where we come into close contact is in regard to the junctions. We have to provide openings in the main 
sewers for the| reticulating pipes, and when we make a survey, immediately the survey is finished we send 
on to the Board a rough plan indicating what junctions we think will be required in any particular length 
of main sewer. They then either approve, or if they wish to carry out the reticulation in a different way 
to that which we think it should be, they say, " We want another junction here, and we do not want that 
junction there." Then when we get that plan back we incorporate the junctions they decide upon in the 
contract. There can, therefore, be no clashing. 

807. That is to say, the Engineer for the Water and Sewerage Board has an opportunity of examining the 
plans before the contract is let ? Tes ; he has an opportunity of saying precisely wdiat he requires. 
SOS. There is another tiring Mr. Smail said here. When we were asking about this overlapping he said, 
" We suggested that a certain deviation should be made, and that it would result in the saving of so 
much money. We had an object in that, because we represent the taxpayer, and have to study economy. 
I got a snubbing from the Works Department over it. It is on record that we are ' asked for information 
and not for suggestions.' I simply gave it as a suggestion, not that the Minister ought to or should carry 
it out, but merely that the lines might be altered in order to effect a saving." Then he was asked, " In 
what particular part was that?" and said, "As near as I can recollect it was on the Waverley or 
liandwick slope, but the papers will show." "Did it involve any large sum of money ? " "There was a 
saving of about £3,000." Then the next question was, " Tou recommended a deviation in their main 
lines ? " and the answer was, " I suggested. I do not know how the letters were written from the 
Administrative Branch, but my minute suggested that such and such a tiling should be done. Of course 
I knew that the Minister was the constructing authority, and that any recommendations would be 
considered, and so I put it as a suggestion." " And you got a snub ? " "I took it as a snub." 
" Was any reason given for your suggestion not being carried out ? " " Not that I know of." " Tour 
suggestion was not given effect to?" "I could not say." "Is that work carried out?" "That 
particular work is not being carried out yet." " Was it a work affecting Waverley or Bandwick ? " 
" Well, it affected Waverley more particularly." " Where was the discharge?" " Bondi sewer." "I 
thought all the main sewerage there had been carried out ? " " So the main sewers had been, but 
there is a little dispute as to the line of demarcation between main sewers and reticulation sewers. I 
understood that when a sewer like the Bondi sewer was constructed through, then any trunks or 
subsidiary branches from that would be considered Board's work, coming under the section settled between 
Mr. Hickson and myself." " Then do the "Works Department contend that this particular part of the work 
you call a branch is part of their work ? " "Tes." "Has that been settled yet?" "Tes; it has 
been settled by the Minister carrying out the main branch which we had surveyed in this office. I am just 
waiting for them now in order to go on with the reticulation. I contend that that is a branch." 
"Has that been carried out by the Works Department?" "It is being carried out now." "Is 

this 



36 BOYAX COMMISSION ON METEOPOLITAN WATEE SUPPLY AND 

J. Davis, this the particular part that you object to?" "No. that is another portion." " We want to know 
s*^-*-^ the portion to which there was an objection ? " " Between Randwiek and the Bondi sewer. It takes 
17 Aug., 1897. the eastern slope of "Waverley." "Is it your contention that that particular work should come 
under you?" " res, I think so. Once the main branches have been constructed by the constructing 
authority, then I think that the reticulation severs, the subsidiary branches, can be more economically 
carried out by this Board." "I understand that there is one particular part of the work which you 
recommend should be carried out in a different way r" "Yes." "You do not know whether it has been 
done ?" " No." " Can you identify it so that when we come to examine Mr. Davis we can find out?" 
" Well, if you say the drainage for the eastern slopes of Waverley they will know the papers." "We want 
to hear what you have to say about that, Mr. Davis ? The portion referred to lies between the outlet of 
the Bondi sewer and Coogee Bay. The question arose during the time that Mr. Smail was Engineer-in- 
Chief for Sewerage Construction whether the Coogee Bay outlet should be used for draining these slopes 
extending from the sea up to the ridge at Waverley, or whether the Bondi outlet should be used. He 
decided then, and the survey was made, that the major portion of it should be taken to the Bondi outlet. 
When the work came over to me, I put these decisions on paper, and forwarded on to Mr. Smail, in the way 
I have already indicated, a plan for any junctions he might require. When the plan went on to the Board 
they went into the matter and concluded that it would be done cheaper by taking the drainage wholly, 
with the exception of a very smail portion near the Bondi sewer, to the Coogee outlet. The papers then 
came back to me and I had to investigate the thing very thoroughly, and the conclusion I came to was 
that the major portion should go to Bondi, as Mr. Smail originally proposed, for two reasons. First of all 
the Board's officers said it would be cheaper to take it to Coogee, and, secondly, they said the Bondi sewer 
would be overcharged, supposing it was taken to Bondi. To begin with I proved from actual figures that 
they were wrong in the conclusion they arrived at in regard to cost, and, secondly, I proved by a physical fact 
that this particular drainage had been provided for in the size of the Bondi sewer, so that it was impossible for 
the sewer at the Bondi outlet to be overcharged from the drainage of these slopes into the sewer. At the 
outlet the sewer is 7 ft. 6 in. by 8 ft. 6in. for a mile extending from Ben Buckler to the South Head Eoad, 
and beyond that it is 7 ft. 2 in. by S ft. 2 in., and the extra size was provided to allow for the drainatre from the 
districts under consideration ; and from that I concluded that the best plan would be to take the major portion 
of the drainage to the Botidi outlet, and that is being carried out, — that is to say, tenders were received on 
Monday last for the construction of the sewer. With regard to Mr. Smail's contention that this sewer 
was reticulation, when I tell you that a matter of between 1,-500 and 2,000 acres is involved, and that this 
intercepting sewer running along the coast-line of Bondi has to take the whole of this drainage, it can 
scarcely be contended that is reticulation. We have been in the habit of carrying out the main sewers 
and the branch sewers — that is to say, the sewers that are necessary to tap any particular drainage area, — 
leaving Mr. Smail to develop the drainage area itself. I know that that is quite understood by the 
Minister. We have had money voted for this particular work which will involve, I suppose, an expenditure 
of £16,000. 

809. Has Mr. Smail become aware of the result of your inquiries ? Yes ; he has since sent on the junctions 
that are required. 

S10. So that he has seen the plans ? I believe so. He has seen so many things it might not be impressed 
on his memory as it is on mine. 

811. Your answer to his statement is this, that in the first place it was cheaper to carry that sewerage to 
the Bondi outfall rather than to Coogee ; and secondly as to the objection that the Bondi outfall was not 
of sufficient area to discharge that additional drainage, you found it amply sufficient, and that in fact it 
was constructed with that end in view ? Yes. 

812. Then Mr. Smail was asked this question, " Can you tell us whether vou have been delayed at all in 
carrying out the reticulation by reason of delay in the Works Department ?" " Oh, yes ; there are 
twelve miles of sewers in the Western Suburbs which have been finished for over six months." Then he 
was asked, " There are twelve miles finished and lying useless by reason of the non-completion of the 
trunk works r" and replied " The non-completion of the outfall works at Arncliffe." What are the 
reasons for that ? In order to explain that I would have to go back to 1S95, when the sewerage works 
as a whole were taken over by Mr. Darley at the time that he devoted the whole of his time to the Water 
and Sewerage Board. At that time the works were fairly under way ; and through some misconception 
(I put it in that way for want of a better word), the officers that were taken over with the works were 
not sufficient to carry them on at the rate that they were being constructed at that time. First of all 
Mr. Darley was away on leave, and when he came back he found that he had not the officers, and 
he had to reorganize and to get together virtually another staff to be capable of carrying out the 
works. That took some months, and I found in 1S96, when the Branch was rearranged again and 
Mr. Darley was made Engineer-in-Chief for Public Works and I took over the sewerage works, that 
only £S3,G09 worth of works were in progress, and that during the twelve months, through nobody's 
fault, but through the set of circumstances that I have already explained briefly, scarcely any contracts 
had been got out. The designs had been virtually at a standstill. Work had been let during the twelve 
months, but the designs were prepared for this work prior to April 189o. Work had been let to the 
extent of £08,043 between April, 1895, and April, 1896, but these designs were prepared before 
Mr. Darley took over the works. Then the Minister decided in 1S96 that they must go on at a quicker 
rate, lou might say that as far as the designs were concerned the work was suspended for twelve 
months, and through that I have no doubt the Water and Sewerage Board got ahead of us. Indeed I 
have no doubt myself that they calculated that the works would be pressed forward at the same rate of 
progress that they had been, instead of which they were not. 

813. I think I understand that the reason there was delay in carrying out the main works was because of ' 
the want of monev ? That was earlier still. The whole branch was disarranged. Some twelve or 
eighteen months before Mr. Darley took everything over there was really no money to go on with the 
works. It was quite as a matter of grace that Mr. Lyne allowed us to go on with the £40,000 contract 
across the Sewage Fam. 

814. So it wn due to the fact that the shortness of the finances disarranged the orderlv carrying on of 
these works ? That is so. 

815. And secondly, at a later period when Mr. Darley took it up, it was due to the fact of the continual 
changes? Ye* ; it was thought that the works would be amalgamated with the Board's works, and then 
the Minister altered his mind. 816. 



8EWEBAGE BOABD — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



37 



816. Those two circumstances account for the delay? Most certainly. J- Davie. 

817. Of course in the Water and Sewerage Board they had one continuous management right through, ,-»>~»^— N 
and therefore there was no cause for delay, so far as they were concerned? No. At present we send 17 Aug., 1897. 
them on from time to time a list of our contracts that we have in hand, and an approximate date when 

they will be finished, and they arrange for their reticulation to finish about the same time as our contracts 
are finished. 

818. Was not that the same at the time the delav took place ? I do not know whether the lists were sent 
the same as now, but they knew perfectly, as well as we did, when the contract time would expire. 

819. Still they went ahead ? Tes. 

820. Then Mr. Smail says there is a considerable delay in carrying out the works at North Shore. We 
asked, " Are you aware what is delaying the carrying out of the outfall works there?" and he said, 
" Tes, I think there, is some difficulty as to the system of disposal. Of course since that was disposed 
of the works have been going on." Then the next question was, " How long will it take before those 
works are finished?" and his answer was, ' ; I think it will be about twelve months "; — we would like to 
hear what you have to say about that, Mr. Davis? Primarily the question of finance came in there. 
The first contract that was let at North Shore was the main sewer, which was to take two years. There 
were very deep shafts and tunnel, and consequently it took a very long time. It was thought that the 
outfall works w-ould take about twelve months, as they will now that they are in hand, and it was intended 
to start the outfall works and branch sewers, so that when the main sewer was finished at the expiration 
of the two years, the other work would be finished on or about the same time. When the main sewer got 
fairly advanced the financial crisis came and the work stopped. 

821. The financial difficulty was wholly responsible ? I think we may say wholly. 

822. Then, with regard to North Shore, I think there was a justification for carrying out the reticulation 
works, in that they were made to discharge into the creeks there, and so, to a certain extent, relieve the 
borough of the slops nuisances ? Tes, the reticulation works, at the request of the borough, were carried 
out, in order to carry away the slops in the meantime. There was no proper drainage in any part of the 
borough, and in some cases these pipes could be discharged into existing creeks, and were discharged in 
that way pro tern. 

823. Is there anything delaying the works now ? At North Shore the outfall works are in hand. There 
are 7 or 8 acres of reclamation to be done. Mr. Darley has his sand dredges there doing that, and the 
contract is let for the precipitation and filtration works, so that nothing more can be done just now than 
what is being done. The whole of the work is in hand. 

824. I am not asking this with regard to your work, but wish to ascertain whether the water and sewerage 
works are not carried out in advance of your works, thus causing a loss of interest? Not so far as we 
are concerned. The alteration in management and the financial crisis caused a derangement ; but, so far 
as I see now, there is nothing to interfere with the proper arrangement of the work. 

825. Might it not be said, '-But the same financial difficulty must have overtaken the Water and Sewerage 
Board, and therefore there would be the same reason for delay in both cases " ? Tes ; but there is this 
to be safd : the Board had contracts ready to let — indeed, tenders in for certain reticulation — at the time 
we all got orders to go on with the works ; and so had we, but the Board could carry out their reticulation 
so much quicker than we could do our work, and they started simultaneously with us, so that they would 
get done sooner than we could. 

826. The explanation was that their works were so much smaller than yours ? Tes. 

827. Is there anything you can tell us that will assist us in our inquiry — anything by which better 
economy and efficiency could be obtained in the water and sewerage work ? I am not sufficiently familiar 
with their work to express any opinion. I wish the Commission to understand that what I have said in 
regard to delay in the main sewers is not either a reflection on Mr. Darley or Mr. Smail. It was simply 
the result of accident. The office got disorganised through a misapprehension. 



THURSDAY, 19 AUGUST, 1S97. 



present: — 
JOSEPH BABLING, Esq., J.P. (President). 
GEORGE ALEXANDEP. WILSON, Esq., J.P. 
• JAMES POWELL, Esq., J.P. 

Theodore Mailler Kendall, Medical Adviser to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, 

sworn, and examined : — 

828. President.'] In the course of our investigation it has been stated that the stormwater sewers rates T M _ 
have become a very great burden on the revenues of the Board, and a matter of considerable hardship to Kendall, 
some of the ratepayers, and we want you, as Medical Adviser to the Board, to give us some idea of the ,— ^— -» 
value, from a sanitary point of view, of these stormwater sewers; — a high rate is being paid, but are 19 Aug., 1897. 
there not compensating advantages on sanitary grounds ; we want you to give us the result of your 
observations? There is one particular district, Erskineville, which used to be very unhealthy at one time, 

but it is a curious district. The soil is low-lying and very much water-logged. It is composed of made 
soils in many places. In Erskineville, as lately as 1893, the average of reported cases of typhoid fever 
per 10,000 of the population was as high as 60. " Since theconstructionof the sewers, and the consequent 
drying of the soil and admission of a purer state of air, the incidence of disease has been reduced from that 
high average to as low as 17. 

829. Has that ranged over a sufficient time to show that it is due to that cause, or may it have been some 
other local cause, drier or wetter weather ? No ; it has ranged over now a period of nine years, so that 
it gives a fair time. It has ranged over a time when we have had a very little rainfall, which means that 
typhoid fever would increase more rapidly. 

830. In a period of drought the typhoid fever is more likely to be rampant than in a period of wet, because 
in the wet weather the flushing of the channels takes place naturally ? And the infections are carried away. 
Of course, we have had a very exceptional year this year. Typhoid fever is very low. The mortality- 
from typhoid is lower than it has been for fifteen years, and the reduction is noticed more in those places 

whicn 



.i» EOTAL COSUIISSrON ON METROPOLITAN WAME SUPPLY AND 

T. M. which have been provided with sewers. The highest rate of typhoid fever occurs at the present time in 

Kendall. ^he districts of Annandale and some portions of Marriekville and Leichhardt, which are not yet provided 

1QA "^isq" with any proper sewerage scheme. There is no doubt at all that the stormwater sewers have had the 

°'' ' effect of drying the soil and decreasing the mortality, not only from typhoid fever, but they have decreased 

the mortality from diseases in the form of diarrhoea and such like, which used to carry off many children 

and young adults. The mortality from such diseases has been greatly decreased during the last few years. 

831. And that you attribute largely to the construction of these stormwater sewers ? And the general 
sewerage system. 

832. You know, I suppose, what brought about the construction of the stormwater sewers earlier than 
would otherwise have been the case ? I understood it was because where it was not possible to provide 
the people with the permanent system of sewerage, it provided them with what was the quickest form of 
sewerage to help them along. 

833. We want from you some indication to show whether that policy has been justified by results ; there 
are other places besides Erskineville which have storm-water sewers, such as Burwood ? In Burwood 
the. mortality has also decreased. 

834. Are you aware of any other parts of which that can be said ? If you can tell me where the storm- 
water sewers are, I can tell you. 

835. "We should like you to think over that question, see where the storm- water sewers are constructed, 
and give us. an idea of their value to the public health; your answer may be a complete one to the 
complaints that have been made ? I will do that. 

836. Deaths of typhoid patients removed to the hospital are not shown by the Registrar-General attached 
to the locality from which the patient comes, but in your reports they are attached to their localities ? 
Tes ; in Balmain the average of reported cases is ITU per 10,000 ; Leichhardt, 48'3 ; Glebe, 11'5 ; and 
Annandale, 61'07. Then the west central is considerably less. The east central is much higher; for 
instance, Alexandria shows as much as 111' per 10,000, and the reason for that is that the power given to 
the Board for dealing with the old existing sewerage was not sufficient. In Alexandria, where this high 
death-rate was, it nearly all occurred in one portion, called the Beaconsfield Estate. It is a very water- 
logged place, near the woollen mills, where they are drying wool. The streets had the sewers through 
them, but the Board had not the power of compelling the people to connect with them ; they could not 
interfere with the existing sewerage, and the consequence was that we had all this bad state of affairs, 
just as we had in Ridge-street, Surry Hills, where nearly every house contained a patient stricken with 
typhoid fever. I personally inspected all these places, which were in an insanitary condition ; and when 
this epidemic became so dangerous I reported it to the Board, and suggested to them that it was necessary, 
in the interests of public health, that something should be done. They showed the public the benefits to 
be derived, and persuaded them to connect the houses with the sewers. Since that time we have had no 
trouble in that neighbourhood at all. I do not think this year there have been more than two cases of 
typhoid in that locality. These reports that I write show the exact locality, and that would not be 
obtainable from the Kegistrar-General at all, because he has not the opportunity of getting it. I get the 
returns from all sources, and get the address and work out the localities. 

837. Tou will be able to do it under the new Medical Bill ? Tes ; we will have the notification of disease. 
When that is proclaimed, then we will have a better state of affairs. 

838. Is there anything else you think might be of assistance to us in our inquiry ? In 1892, in 
Balmain, the average of death from typhoid ran at about 23 per 10,000, aud it is now only 11. Of 
course there are many other things which have tended to improve the general health ; for instance, in 
diphtheria we have the improved method of diagnosis, and the improvement in this new and very useful 
remedy called anti-toxin. Although we have had a very serious outbreak of diphtheria this year, the 
mortality is greatly less than it has been for seventeen years ; but the mortality was decreasing consider- 
ably before the anti-toxin treatment was thought of in all those districts where the Board had extended 
their operations. 

839. It is very easy to see t*hat a householder may, if he has a case of typhoid in his house, have to pay as 
much as ten years' rates in one year ? Yes. The householder does not look forward to the future ; he 
only looks to the present. He wants to get as much as he can out of his rent. Here is a copy of my 
annual report for 1890, and also a comparison of Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, and 
Hobart, which will show that, although we had a very serious typhoid fever epidemic last year, Sydney 
till stands out as the most sanitary city of the whole lot. [Vide Appendix.'] 



Henry Sydney Williams, Solicitor to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, sworn, and 

examined: — 

H. S. 840. President.'] We wish to get from you any suggestions you may be able to supply as to any measures 
Williams, which may be necessary to the more economical administration of the Department to which you are 
-'"-— ~— "^ solicitor. A good deal of evidence has been given to us with regard to issuing distress warrants rather 
19 Aug., 1897. than summonses, and there are one or two other matters upon which we want you to give us some 
information? Well, I might say that in the administration of the Act up to the present time various 
defects have come to light, and wants felt with reference to the matters you hint at, as in the matter of 
proper power to distrain for rates, and so on, and all those defects and wants have been incorporated in 
a Bill, which has been in draft for a considerable time past, and which has lately been revised and brought 
right up to date. That Bill is to be presented during the present Session of Parliament. You mentioned 
the matter of distress ; that has been fully provided for in the Bill. The Act as it stands at present is 
defective in that respect, and the Board have not proper powers to distrain for rates. There is a power 
in the Act to distrain for rates, but the power is too bald to be made use of generally. It has been put 
in force in certain cases — for instance in the case of a tenant leaving the premises hurriedly the Board 
have distrained at the request of the landlord, but they have not made a practice of distraining, because 
the provisions in the present Act are not considered sufficient to be acted upon generally. The only pro- 
vision is in the 89th section of the Municipal Act, and that merely provides that the President may issue 
a warrant under his hand, in the form contained in the Schedule, to levy the rate by distress, and sell all 
the goods and chattels of the person occupying the premises. There is no provision, as there should be, 
that the distress is to be carried out under the provisions of the " Distress for Rent and Replevins Act, — " 

that 



BEWEBAGE BOABD — MINUTES OF ETTDENCE. «*» 

that is to say, the Act does not provide how long the bailiff is to remain there to begin with. The H. S. 

" Distress for Eent and Eeplevins Act " only relates to the distraint for rent, and it does not in any way amB - 

touch distraint for rates. The City Corporation, in the " Sydney Corporation Act," have full power to lg ^ lgg7 

distrain, and the distress is brought under the "Distress for Eent and Eeplevins Act," and they have 

power further to charge the bailiff's fees for distraining. The various municipalities have also distress 

powers under the Municipalities Acts, although somewhat defective. Where the Board have exercised 

the power of distress they have followed, so far as possible, the provisions of the " Distress for Eent and 

Eeplevins Act " ; that is to say, the bailiff has remained in possession for five days before selling. It was 

not considered safe to sell before that time. "We thought at all events that no fault could be found if we 

stayed there for the full time that a landlord's bailiff stays in possession under the " Distress for Eent 

and Eeplevins Act " ; but then, although no question has arisen (we have not had many distresses), the 

question is open as to how long we are to remain there — whether we ought to sell immediately or remain 

there for five days ; there is no provision made in the case. Then we have no power to levy for our 

bailiff's fees, and if we stay there for five days and the bailiff has to be paid Cs. or 7s. a day, it does not 

pay, especially if the rate is only a few shillings. In the new Bill winch has been drafted, full provision 

has been made for the recovery of moneys by distress proceedings, with power to distrain in all respects 

as a landlord distrains under the " Distress for Eent and Eeplevins Act," and with power also to levy for 

the bailiff's fees, under a schedule of fees similar to that which has been already passed by both Houses 

for the Hunter District Bill. I think the Assembly took the whole of the distress clauses out of the 

Hunter District Bill, but I understand that they are still under consideration, reasons for their inclusion 

in the Bill having been supplied. We bave copied the provisions of the Hunter District Bill which passed 

the Legislative Council in that respect. Such provisions were originally prepared by myself on behalf of 

the Metropolitan Board. I think that is all I can say about distress. 

841. We have had the Mayor of Sydney before us, and also Mr. Jeanneret, one of the aldermen, and 
they have drawn special attention to this power of levying by distress which they possess, and which they 
say, and I suppose it is a fact, is more economical to the ratepayer, and they thought that the Board had 
the same power, and said they could not understand why you should resort to the more expensive and 
more cumbrous system of summonses. Tour answer is, that the Councils have the power to put the 
"Distress for Eent and Eeplevins Act" into force. The "Distress for Eent and Eeplevins Act " deals 
simply with rents, and does not apply to rates ; but the Municipal Acts have adopted the machinery 
of the " Distress for Eent and Eeplevins Act," and made it applicable to rates, and that you cannot do ? 
I think, in the case of the Municipalities Act, they have somewhat similar powers enacted ; but in the 
" Sydney Corporation Act" the provision is that the distress is to be in accordance with the terms of the 
" Distress for Eent and Eeplevins Act. Speaking from memory, I think, that is the case. 

842. The Act adopts the machinery of the Eent and Eeplevins Act ? Tes. 

843. But you do not possess that ? We do not possess it, and it would not be safe to resort to distraining 
as a system under our present Act as it stands. 

844. As a fact, you have got the principle laid down, but the machinery is not there ? Tes. 

845. Is it a fact that it will be much more economical to levy rates under that Act than under summons ? 
In some cases it may, and in other cases it may not. Take the case of summonses in the Small Debts 
Court — all summonses for amounts ranging from 5s. to £10. Under the present Act the Board issue a 
small debts summons, and that is the only expense the ratepayer is put to. If he pays the money into 
court he pays the summons fee of from 2s. to 5s. to the court with it, and there is an end of it ; but if a 
bailiff is put into that man's house there is a levy fee to start with, and then if the bailiff is any time in 
possession, if he follows the usual custom of bailiffs, he will charge the usual days' possession fee, which 
would be 6s. or 7s. more, making, say, about 9s. for expenses. In small debts cases, I think, the ratepayer 
will not benefit in any way by the change ; but in larger cases, in cases where the amount sued for is over 
£10, and where the Board at present issue a summons in the District Court on which the fees are heavier 
some 17s. 2d. or something like that — of course the ratepayer would be benefited. 

846. Is levying by distress a more speedy process than by summons ? Possibly it may be more speedy. 
In the majority of cases, I suppose, when the bailiff comes the money would be paid. Of course, where 
a summons is issued it is generally two or three days before the bailiff serves it. As a rule he has so 
many that though some may be served the same day it may be two or three days before the whole are 
served. 

847. Then the adoption of this distress system would rather benefit the richer than the poorer class of 
people — that is to say, it would reduce the expenses of those who have to pay the larger amounts rather 
than the expenses of those who have to pay the smaller amounts ? Tes. I think it is a very desirable 
power to have, because often it is necessary to put a bailiff into the place at once ; for instance, in hotels, 
when the transfer of the license is about to take place, or where a tenant is about to remove his goods, 
the landlord comes in and asks us to protect him against the rates that are owing. In cases of that kind 
the Board should bave full power to make distress as a matter of convenience, but it remains to be seen 
how it will work if adopted as a practice. 

84S. The evidence of the City Council is that it works very well ; they have that power, and the threat 
to use it is generally sufficient ; — the Mayor said there were surprisingly few cases where they had to 
carry, it out ? I think if a return were asked for from the City Council it would be found_ that very few 
distress warrants are issued, because the people pay up, as a rule. The same thing is coming about with 
the Water and Sewerage Board. Nothing like so many summonses are issued now as were issued years 
ago. The people pay up very well. So far as I am concerned, in dealing with the District Court sum- 
monses I have comparatively little to do in the way of recovering rates. Of course there are other moneys 
that are not paid up so we'll, but then that is through stress of circumstances as a rule ; I mean moneys 
for compulsory drainage works, and such like. The necessity for proceedings for the recovery of rates 
seems to be gradually dying out. 

849. Are there any other legislative powers which you think it desirable to take with a view to working 
with economy and efficiently ? Of course there are many powers it is desirable to have to enable the 
Board to work with more efficiency, and those powers are incorporated in the Bill. Whenever any defect 
or requirement is brought to light it is brought before the Board and thoroughly thrashed out, and then 
consideration is given to the best means of remedying it. It is then put into form, and a note kept of it. 
All those amendments and requirements have now been incorporated in this Bill, which we hope will 



40 BOYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WiTEB SUPPLY AND 

make the Act thoroughly workable. There has been a great difficulty iu connection with the old city 
sewerage. The Amending Act of 1889 enabled the Board to compel connections with sewers laid down 
by the Government, but did not cover connections with sewers laid down by the old City Council, and 
19 Aug., 1897. that difficulty has been very much felt by the Water and Sewerage Board. I believe there are a great 
many places in the city which should be properly connected with the sewer, and the owners have refused 
and neglected to connect. Complaints have been made to the Water and Sewerage Board by neighbours 
and residents in the district, and they have been helpless, powerless in the matter. But in the new Bill 
full power has been taken to compel persons to properly connect — to make proper sanitary connections 
with the sewers, although they may be the old city sewers. 

850. That is a defect which evidently very much needs to be remedied ? Tes, very much indeed. 

851. Is there anything else ? No. 

852. And all these improvements will be found in the new Bill, which has not yet been tabled ? Tes. 
It has been finally approved of by the Board, and I think it is now in the hands of the Minister. 



Melbourne Green, Accountant to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, was sworn, and 

examined: — 
853. Mr. Wilson.'] Is this copy of the -evidence which you now hand in a correct transcript of the 
evidence given by you on the 10th instant ? Tes. 



Thomas Kennedy, Examiner of Accounts and Auditor to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage 
Board, was sworn, and examined : — 
T.Kennedy. 854. President.'] [Handing transcript of evidence given hy witness on 10th August.] That is the evidence 
, — ^a_»— n you gave ? Tes. 
19 Aug., 1897. 855. You swear to that as true and correct ? Tes. 

856. Have you anything more to say ? There are many things that have cropped up during my term of 
office that have had to be put right, but they are gradually settling down, and we are getting into a good 
groove. 



MONDAY, G SEPTEMBER, 1897. 

present: — 

JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., J.P. (President). 



GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq., J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq. J.P. 

William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, further examined : — 

W. Holmes. 857. President.] I think you are prepared to give us certain further statistics with regard to the Water 

s~^j- — — \ and Sewerage Board ? Tes. 
6 Sept., 1897. 858. We shall be glad to have, first, the gross revenue for the year ended 30th June, 1897, both for water 
and for sewerage ? Water, £175,984 ; sewerage, £87,652. 

859. What were the gross working expenses and maintenance expenses for water and for sewerage to the 
30th June, 1897 ? Eor water, £40,821 ; for sewerage, £29,680; and depreciation in value of plant and 
machinery, £4,336. 

860. What is the interest pavable on the capital ? 3'7S9 per cent. The interest at 3 - 789 per cent, is 
£215,378 Is. 7d. 

861. The rate of interest is that which you have ascertained to be actually payable on the debt ? That is 
the average rate paid by the Government. 

862. We want to know also the net balance on the year's operations to meet interest on capital ? That is 
£188,799 6s. 4d. 

863. What is the deficiency on the year's operations ? '£26,578 15s. 3d. Tou see we still have that 
£28,000 worth of interest to carry forward this year, the interest on the Potts Hill reservoir, and the 
duplicate pipe line to Potts Hill. That was the cause of the decrease last year. 

864. What is the estimated value of the free-water services ? £19,535 17s. 

865. What were the arrears of rates and charges outstanding? £42,455 8s. 4d. 

866. Will you give me the items included in the arrears, say the meter accounts ? Meter accounts included 
in the arrears £16,364 9s. 6d. That represents principally the accounts rendered to the 30th June, 1897. 

867. Accounts just rendered ? Yes. 

868. What were the rates, charges, &c, held in abeyance ? £7,990 9s. is the amount owing on churches, 
Sunday schools, and charities. 

869. I think you are not likely to recover that ? I think not, because we have always given the people to 
understand that, at the wish of the Minister, it would not be enforced. We had no power to exempt. 

870. Tou gave them to understand that it would not be collected ? Tes. 

871. What are the arrears of rates on vacant lands, owners unknown ? £7,741 17s. Id. 

872. Will you give me, please, the capital cost of the works, both on account of water supply and sewerage ? 
Water supply, £4,244,550; sewerage, £2,018,120. 

873. What is the number of municipalities and districts reticulated? Water supply, 57; sewer* 
age, 24. 

874. What is the mileage of reticulation ? Exclusive of trunk and pumping mains— water-mains, 947 
miles ; sewers, 274 miles. 

875. What is the estimated population served ? Water, 418,512 ; sewerage, 228,446. 

876. What is the aggregate revenue from the inception of the Board? Water, £1,486,414 ; sewerage, 
£654,072. 

S77. What is the capital cost of the works constructed by the Board and by the Government, respectively ? 
Works constructed by Government loans, £5,499,978. 

878. 



SEWERAGE BOAED — MINUTES OP EVIDENCE. 41 

S78. That is not respectively— that is together ? I thought you wanted them together. w - Holmes. 

879. Tou have not got them now ? No. 6 g . 18 g* 

880. What is the cost of the works taken over from the municipalities ? £762,693. P •> 

881. Does that include the City Council ? Tes ; the City Council's Water Fund. 

882. What is the total cost of the Board in salaries and fees since its inception ? £18,601. 

883. What is the number of rate-notices issued during the year ending June, 1897 ? 279,101. 

884. What is the number of meter accounts for the same period? 10,46S ; the number of meters fixed 
being 6,844. . . 

885. What is the number of the office staff in the professional division and the clerical division? Ihe 
total at the 30th June was 443, but owing to a misconception this morning I am unable to divide the 
figures up. I will send it to you. 

886. Will you please get the salaries as well ? Tes. 

887. What was the deficiency last year ? About £28,000. 

888. This year it is £26,000? Tes. 

889. Do you see any chance in the ordinary course of events for that to be overtaken unless some remedial 
measures are taken ? I think what will be done first will be that the. 5 per cent, discount will be removed. 
That represents £9,000. 

890. And then there is a proposal to increase the minimum rate from 10s. to 15s. ? And that represents 
£9,000 odd. 

891. Mr. Wilson.'] Is it proposed by the Board to seek Legislative consent to raise the rate ? Tes. 

892. What do you estimate would be the additional revenue to be obtained by thus raising the minimum 
rate to 15s.? Water, £6,903 15s. Gd. ; sewerage, £2,744 lis. 3d. ; making a total for water and for 
sewerage of £9,648 6s. 3d. 

893. In thus raising the minimum rate, would there not be a likelihood of evoking the cry of poor versus 
well-to-do ratepayers— that is, would it not be said that the increase would affect only the poorest rate- 
payers, without adding anv corresponding burden to the richer classes of ratepayers? The Board 
considers that small properties are let off too lightly. For instance, in a small property there may be six 
or more inmates, and all they pay is 5s. per half-year. There was a discussion on the matter in the Board 
a few weeks ago, and I think the" vote was unanimous, and they considered that if there were tanks and 
wells it would cost more for buckets and ropes to haul the water up than the 5s. for which the people 
have the water carried to their door. 

894. At 10s. the Board think they are selling the water too cheap ? Tes. 

895. At 15s. would it be too cheap ? They consider that would be about right. 

896. Might it not also be alleged that the Board are trying to make the poor ratepayers responsible for 
the loss incurred by the Board's operations ? I think the answer to that is that the smaller people have 
got off a great deal too lightly for the value they have received already— that they have not paid 
commensurately with the value they have received. 

897. They will be paying no more than their share ? We do not consider they have paid their share. 

898. Is it the case that the landlords as a rule pay all rates, including water and sewerage rates, on that 
class of properties which come under the minimum rate ? Tes, as a rule they do. 

899. Could the discontinuance of the 5 per cent, discount be considered as an increase_ in the rates paid 
by the richer class of the community, corresponding to the proposed increase of the minimum rate? It 
is the people with the property lists chiefly who benefit by the discount. 

900. It has been stated that the present sewerage rate of 7d. in the £ is insufficient to produce the 
revenue required to meet working and maintenance expenses and the interest payable on the capital cost 
of the sewerage works, more particularly in those districts where storm- water drains have been merged in 
the general sewerage system ; — is that so ? Tes, that is so. Certainly, the 7d. is insufficient, and will be 
insufficient. With regard to the western suburbs and the North Shore works, which matters will have to 
be dealt with very soon now that the outlets are nearly ready, the matter was discussed by the Board when 
the Amending Bill was before them, and they are seeking power to raise the rate, if necessary, to 8 per 
cent, on the assessed value ; at present they are limited to 5 per cent. It is recognised that 7d. in the £, 
or even Is., will not pay in the case of the western suburbs and North Sydney. 

901. President.'] The rates are 7d. in the £ now? Tes. 

902. When the main sewers are constructed the debt on the storm-water sewers will be merged into the 
general debt ? Tes. 

903. Have you estimated at all what increase in the general rate is required to meet that larger capital 
debt? 1 prepared some returns for the Board, when they were considering that clause in the Bill. I got 
out four returns for them. The first was at North Sydney. The return shows the amount expended to 
date and the estimated amount to complete, and I have put in the cost of the storm-water ducts, and 
everything that will be charged to the sewerage over there, and what will be charged for reticulation; and 
on the other side I show the interest on the cost at 3^ per cent., and the annual instalment to redeem the 
renewable works at the end of 100 years, and also the annual chargef or maintenance and management ; 
and with the revenue from the properties that will be rateable, I find it will be necessary to charge there 
Is. 6d. in the £. Is. is our maximum at present. 

904. Will that meet all the charges ? I think it will at present. The next is the western suburbs. I 
have dealt with that in the same way, and I find that, taking the revenue at 2s. 2d. in the £, it will only 
just about pay. The cost of the work has very largely exceeded the estimate. That is one cause ; and 
then the cost of the storm-water channels was not anticipated at the time, and not included in Mr. 
Stayton's estimate. There is £200,000 there. 

905. I think you are wrong there. It was always anticipated that storm-water channels would have to be 
constructed. Tou will find that that was mentioned in the Public Works Committee's report ? I have 
not seen it. Then, the estimate of revenue by Mr. Stayton was based on the whole of the ratable 
properties of the boroughs ; but a great deal of the property will not be ratable for sewerage at all, 
because the only property that can be rated is property within 150 feet of the sewer. Then it was anti- 
cipated that it would increase to a very great extent, so that by the time the sewerage was completed the 
ratable property would have increased to something like £3,300,000 ; but, instead of that, it has gone 
down. 

906. That was in the boom time, I suppose ? Tes, it was. 

278— F 907. 



4& BOYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WATEB, SUPPLY AND 

W. Holmes. 907. One will require Is. 6d. and the other 2s. 2d. in the £ ? Tes. Then I have prepared another 
^ J ^ return, including the city and the whole of the suburbs, pooling the whole lot, and charging one uniform 

6 Sept., 1897. ra t e . That works out at 10|d. in the £. Then, if North Sydney were put in, it does not make much 
difference — about 10ki. or lid. in the £ would do it there then. If you make a uniform rate throughout 
the whole of the areas, you will come within the 5 per cent. ; but if it is considered right to keep them as 
separate schemes, then we will have to increase our maximum and pass the 5 per cent. 

908. The western suburbs will be wholly discharged at the western out-fall sewer ? Tes. 

909. None of it will go into the Bondi sewer ? The eastern suburbs will go to the northern out-fall ; 
others will go to Botany. 

910. Tou have pointed out that the metropolitan area, including the western suburbs, gives 10-ijd. ? 
Tes. 

911. But if you strike out the western suburbs a much lower rate can be levied on the metropolitan area ? 
The city and suburbs at present draining into Bondi and Botany are charged 7d., and that is hardly 
sufficient. If you deal with the western suburbs by themselves it will require 2s. 2d., but if you add the 
two together aud charge a general rate for the lot, it would raise the rate for the valuable properties in 
the city to lOf d. If the western suburbs are left out, the city will pay as it is now. 

912. So the increase in the rate that the city will have to stand if it takes on the debt of the western 
suburbs will be 3-|d. ? Tes ; Sydney would have to pay 3|d. to supply the outside properties with sewers. 
The matter was discussed by the Board, and they thought that ought to be dealt with separately. 

913. Is it not a fact that a good portion of the drainage of the city goes into the Botany out-fall ? Tes. 

914. Is it not a fact that some of the western suburbs drain into the Botany out-fall also ? Portions of 
Alexandria and Newtown do. Newtown is on the ridge. Some portions of Newtown drain to Botany, 
other portions on the other slope we cannot drain until the western out-fall is completed. 

915. Does the Board propose to ask Parliament for power to increase, the present sewerage rates ? That, 
I think, I have just answered. Tes. Not the sewerage rates generally ; the sewerage rate in the western 
suburbs and North Sydney they propose to ask Parliament for power to increase, if necessary, to 8 per 
cent, on the assessed value, instead of 5 per cent, as at present. 

916. That is simply on account of the storm-water channels ? Not only on that account, but on account 
of the great cost of the western suburbs sewers. 

917. Mr. Wilson.~\ It is not proposed to pool them ? No. It is recognised that it would be unfair to 
heap up the sewerage rate on the city properties for providing sewers for Strathfield and Burwood and 
the other outlying suburbs. 

918. What is the amount of the additional revenue required to balance the revenue and expenditure in 
respect of the sewerage works ? I cannot answer that question as you have put it. I have got out the 
returns in a different way. I have given you the result as to what rate it will be necessary to charge. 
7d. in the £ will not pay for the storm-water channels, and I am quite sure another 5d. will not pay for 
the completed sewerage ; but if the people pay for the sewerage they will not have to pay for their closet 
pans, as at present, or drainage rates. 

9L9. President.'] Tou have some other returns to hand in I believe ? Tes. Here is a return showing the 
number of properties rated, and the population supplied with water at the time the Board assumed control 
in 1SSS, together with the districts reticulated, also a corresponding return as on the 30th June, 1897. 
And then you asked also for a report made up to the end of June last as to the Board, so I have prepared 
another return to take the place of that previously furnished, showing what the total cost has been from 
the inception of the Board. 

920. Speaking about the deficiency ; — you made portion of that up, did not you F That is another matter. 
There should be an authority to take credit for the free services rendered. 

921. That would more than cover the deficiency '( If they had that and the discount it would more than 
cover the deficiency. Tou see it is not a rate ; it is actually water supplied. It is a service rendered. 

922. Which has cost you money; — the deficiency has arisen partly on account of you having to do that? 
Yes. The figures had never been got out before. The most of it was, and is, pumped water. 

923. In other words, that free service represents an actual cost to the Board for which you get no credit 
whatever ? Tes. We have tried to get over that difficulty in the Amending Bill by putting in a provision 
that the Board may (the same as the Hunter District Board), but shall not be obliged to, supply the 
water mentioned in section 63 of the Act. There should certainly be some power to take credit for it as 
revenue. 

924. The ground on which the churches were remitted was that they actually did not get the water. 
Wherever the water is used there they pay, but a large number of them do not get the water ? No ; it 
is not supplied at all. I have carefully excluded them from my statement. 

925. Mr. Wilson^] But even they get the benefit for fire protection ? Tes. 



THURSDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 

$«s£ttt: — 

JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., J.P (President). 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq., J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq., J.P. 

William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, further examined : — 
"W. Holmes. 926. President.] When here last you gave us some statistics to show what rating would be required to 
f — ~-y^-~s en able interest and expenses to be paid, on the sewerage for the western suburbs ; — 2s. 2d. was the rate 
9 Sept., 1897. required ? Tes. 

927. We then asked you to put the matter in another form, showing what would be required if a general 
health rate were struck for the whole drainage area, leaving the balance to be paid by those who have 
actually connected with the sewers ? Tes. 

928. Have you prepared that return ? I have considered the matter very carefully, and produce for your 
information a memoraudum I have prepared on the subject, dealing with the western suburbs sewerage 



SEWEBAGE BOARD — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



scheme and the North Shore scheme ; also two examples, showing how property will be affected if this 1^_^™' 
new rate is brought into force, as follows : — 9 Sept 1897. 

Western Suburbs Sewerage Scheme. 
Memorandum as to striking a general or health rate for the whole of the sewerage area, and also a special rate on properties 
adjacent to the sewers, instead of one uniform rate only on properties which can connect. 

It is anticipated that the cost of the sewerage system of the western suburbs, when ultimately completed, including 
storm-water channels, will be £1,279,042. This sum I have divided up as follows : — 

Permanent works, which will not require renewal £955,862 

Renewable works, which will probably last 100 years ... ... ... ... £323, ISO 

The assessed annual value of the ratable property, including vacant land, within the boroughs and municipalities 
concerned, is £959,480. 

In order to pay interest at the rate of 3-| per cent, per annum on the cost of permanent works, the sum of 
£33,455 is required, and the annual instalment necessary to redeem the cost of renewable works in 100 years, at 3J per 
cent., is £11,686, making the]total sum to be provided by a general rate on all properties, including vacant land, within 
the municipalities or sewerage area, of £45,141. 

To raise this amount it will be necessary to strike what might be termed a health rate of UJd. in the £ on the 
assessed annual value. 

The assessed annual value of the ratable property, including vacant land, adjacent to the sewers, or which would be 
liable under the existing system of rating, is £593,091. 

In order to provide for expenses of maintenance and management of all works, permanent and renewable, of a 
value of £1,279,042, at 1J per cent, per annum, a sum of £19,185 will be required. 

To raise this, a special or sewerage rate of 7|d. in the £ must be struck on all properties which can connect, or, 
rather, which are liable under existing system, in addition to the health rate before alluded to. 

The total rate, therefore, on properties which can make use of the sewers will be Is. 7d. in the £, and on those 
which cannot connect, ll|d. in the £. 

As this latter seemed to me a rather high health rate I have worked out, for the information of the Commission, the 
rates that would be necessary if those distant from the sewers were charged only on the cost of the permanent works, while 
the sinking fund, and maintenance and management, are debited to those who can make use of the works. The result 
is as follows : — 

Permanent works. 
£955,362, at 3J per cent— £33,455 ; general health rate, 8Jd. in the £. 

Renewable works. 
Annual instalment to pay off £323, ISO in 100 years. \ 

at 31 per cent., £11,686 ... f £30 871 jaI sewage rate 12 J in the £. 

Maintenance and management, £,12/9,042, at 14 ( > « > r o 

per cent., £19,185 ) 

The total rate on properties which can connect would thus be Is. SJd. in the £, and 84d. in the £ on all others. 
It must be borne in mind that these statistics are based on the ultimate cost of the scheme when finally completed 
but the figures in regard to revenue are on the properties at present in existence. The subject is therefore presented in 
its worst form, and it is almost certain that it will never be necessary to impose such high rates as those mentioned, as it 
is only reasonable to suppose that before the works are all carried out there will be a considerable increase in the 
number of houses. 

It should also be remembered, with reference to those premises liable for the higher rate, that immediately the 
sewers are available for connection — or, rather, as soon as the houses are connected — the charge at present levied by the 
local council for attending to the dry earth-pans will cease. The charge in many of the boroughs for this service is high, in 
Strathfield being as much as £3 12s. per house per annum for attending to one pan twice a week. The drainage rates 
at present charged will also cease. 

If the system of rating at present in force in the city and other districts 'now reticulated is to be followed in the 
western suburbs, it will be necessary, on the figures above furnished, to levy a rate of 2s. 2d. in the £. 

Western Suburbs Sewerage. 



Ultimate cost of Works. 


Amount. 


Total. 


Ultimate revenue required. 


Total. 


Government Main Sewerage Ducts — 


£ 
321,650 
434.212 


£ 

755, S62 
200,000 
323, ISO 


Interest on total cost of Governments Works — 


£ 
33,455 




Annual instalment to redeem £323, ISO in 100 






11,6S6 


Government Storm-water Sewer Ducts — 


134,410 
65,590 


Maintenance of works reckoned @ 14, per cent. 


19,185 












Board's Reticulation Sewers — 


25,575 
297,605 




Amount required to complete 






£ 







1,279,042 


£64,326 



Examples. 
(n) House, Redmyre-road, Strathfield. Assessed annual value, £117 — 

Sewerage rate, at 2s. 2d. in the £ _ 

Less drainage rate .. £3 8 3 

Less earth-pan fees 2 12 



Additional amount for complete sewerage system 



6 3 
£3 13 3 



Health and sewerage rates, at Is. 7d. in the £' 

Less drainage rate , £3 8 3 

Less earth-pan fees 2 12 



Additional amount 



Health and sewerage rates, at Is. 8|d. in the£ 

Less drainage rate £3 8 3 

Less earth-pan fees , 2 12 

Additional amount for complete sewerage system «. 



£3 5 
£10 2 3 

6 3 



(6) 



ROYAL COMMISSION OK METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 



W. Holmes, (ft) House, Albert-street, Homebush. Assessed annual value, £10S — 

/'-■~- A — "~N Sewerage rate, at 2s. 2d. in the £ 

9 Sept., 1897. Less earth-pan fees 



Additional amount for complete sewerage system £9 



Health and sewerage rates, at Is. 7d. in the £. 
Less earth-pan fees 



Additional amount for complete sewerage system 

Health and sewerage rates, at Is. Sjd. in the £ '... 

Less earth-pan fees 



£ 


s. 


d. 


n 


14 





2 


12 





£9 


2 





8 


11 





2 


12 





£5 


19 





9 


6 


9 


2 


12 






Additional amount for complete sewerage system £6 14 9 

North Sydney Sewerage. 
The estimated cost on full completion of this scheme, including storm-water ducts, is £204,500 — ■ 

Permanent works £135,000 

Renewable works £69,500 

The assessed annual value of ratable property within the municipality is £202,460. 

The amount required to pay interest of 3J per cent, on the cost of permanent works is £4,725, and the annual instal- 
ment necessary to redeem the cost of renewable works in 100 years, at 3i per cent., is £2,513. The total sum to be provided 
by a general or health rate is therefore £7,238. 

To raise this sum a rate of 8Jd. in the £ must be struck. 

The assessed annual value of ratable property, including vacant land, which would be liable under the present system 
of rating, is £134,996. 

To provide for maintenance and management of all works valued at £204,500, at 14 per cent., a sum of £3,067 will 
be required. 

To raise this a special or sewerage rate of 5Ad. in the £ must be charged. 

The total rates on properties which can make use of the sewers would therefore be Is. 2d. in the £, and on others 
8Jd. in the £. 

If the interest on cost of permanent works only is to be raised by a health rate, charging the sinking fund on renew- 
able works and maintenance and management to those who can connect, the result will be — 

Health rate 5Jd. in the £ 

Sewerage rate 10 ,, 

The total rate on properties which can connect would then be Is. 34d. in the £, and on others 5-kl. in the £. 

If the system of rating at present in force is adopted, a sewerage rate of Is. 6d. in the £ must be charged. 

North Sydney Sewerage. 



Ultimate cost of Works. 



Government Main Works — Constructed and in 
progress 

Board's Works — Constructed and in progress or 
under surveys 

Storm-water Ducts, for which authority has been 
obtained by Public Works Department 

Amount paid Borough Council for their drains ... 

Portion Neutral Bay sub-main 

Reticulation 



45,000 

10,000 
4,500 
15,000 

20,000 



£204,500 



Interest on cost of Main Works — £135,000, @ 34 
per cent 

Annual instalments to redeem renewable works 
— £69,500, with interest @ 34 per cent, in 100 
years 

Maintenance and management — £204,500, @ 14 
per cent. 



£ 
4,725 



2,513 
3,067 



£10,305 



929. President.'] Are you aware what system they adopt in the Old Country with regard to their rates ? 
No ; not with regard to sewerage, but I understand that in Melbourne they follow the system about which 
you are seeking information, i.e., the general rate for the whole sewerage area, and a special rate for those 
who can connect. I have no information, however, as to how that is working. Mr. Thwaites, the engineer, 
is in Sydney, but I have not been able to see him. 



MONDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 

Present : — 

JOSEPH BARLING-, Esq, J.P, President. 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq, J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq, J.P. 
Joseph Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Public "Works Department, further examined : — 
J. Davis. 930. President.'] On Thursday last Mr. Holmes, the Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and 
^•^j^^—\ Sewerage Board, gave us certain evidence in connection with the probable financial results of carrying 
13 Sept., 1897. out the sewerage scheme of the western suburbs. These results a.re surprisingly different from those 
which were submitted +o the Public Works Committee when this scheme was before that body. I have 
given you a copy of Mr. Holmes's evidence, and now we ask if you can kindly give us some explanation of 
the Lvge difference wHch appears in the results from those put before the Public Works Committee. 
You have read Mr. Holmes's evidence ? Tes. 

931. We would like you to put it in your own way, and will be glad if you will first give us the statement 
that Mr. Stayton made ? I propose to read from the Committee's report several extracts which will put 
before the Commission the case as it appeared to the Committee. 

932. And then we want to know the real case as it appears now ? Eirst of all, with regard to the cost of 
the scheme which was submitted to the Committee in 1888 : Mr. Stayton, in the first instance, prepared a 
report, in which he went very fully into his proposals, and, at the same time, gave the cost of the scheme. 

On 



SEWEEAGE BOABD— MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



45 



On page 29 of his report, which is attachedfas an appendix to the Committee's report, he gives the cost of J- Davis 
the proposal as £830,304. When being questioned by the Committee he went into the matter more fully, .oC^^Tl 
and, in answer to question 111, on page 5 of the evidence, referring to the cost, he handed in a supple- ■> Sept., 18. 7. 
mentary paper giving the ultimate estimate of cost of completing the sewerage system throughout the 
western suburbs. That statement is contained in Appendix C 1, and given on page3S2 of the Committee's 
report. He makes the ultimate cost of the works £1,8L7,896. In that estimate is included the £830,30-1 
already given ; and, in addition thereto, the completion of the main works, £-100,000 for reticulation and 
£20,000 for the Marrickville stormwater sewer. The Committee referred to the evidence, and also to 
Mr. Stayton's report in their report on page 9 section 7, in which they give the cost of the works sub- 
mitted to them as £830,304 ; and also in paragraph 8 give the estimate, which was stated by Mr. Stayton 
as £1,'S17,S96, as being the ultimate cost of the scheme. The matter was again before the Committee 
when that body considered the reticulation on 6th February, 1890, when the then Under Secretary, 
Mr. Barling, referred to the previous report very fully, and brought under the notice of the Committee 
the fact that they had considered this large sum of £1,817,896 at that time ; and that, therefore, the 
question of reticulation, which was then submitted, was simply a matter of form. It is evident that the 
Committee took that view of the case, and recommended that the works then submitted to them, amounting 
to £400,000, should be carried out. I refer to these statements in order to show that the cost of the 
work itself was quite understood from beginning to end. 

933. You have read Mr. Holmes' statement here ; he gives the approximate estimate of £1,297,042 ; 
just explain the difference between that and the £1,817,896 ? I was coming to that. In the £1,817,896 
given by Mr. Stayton, in his statement, includes a sum estimated for works to cost £87S,678. Mr. 
Holmes deals with the same works, and estimates that they will cost £755,862. Then again, in the 
£1,817,896 is included £400,000 for reticulation. Mr. Holmes has given the ultimate cost of the reticu- 
lation as £323,180. The £200,000 given by Mr. Holmes, for the stormwater channels, was not included 
in the sum I have given, £1,817,896. 

934. Does that bring it out right ? Included in that £1,817,896 is a large quantity of work which it is 
not proposed to carry out for the present. Mr. Holmes states that he has excluded that also. I think 
Mr. Holmes must have got those figures from our office. 

935. Is it largely reticulation that is left out ? No ; only £77,000 of reticulation is left out. 

936. And what is the large balance made up of then? I can give you precisely what it is : — Canterbury 
and Enfield main sewer, first part, £20,741 ; Marrickville stormwater drainage, £20,000 ; completion of 
Canterbury and Enfield main sewer, £65,410 ; Low-level Bystem, £119,650; completion of Marrickville 
pumping station, £6,817 ; completion of sewage farm, £32,600 ; proportionate cost of works in 
northern and southern outfall systems, £274,000, and reticulation, £76,820 ; saving, £122,816. 

937. But is not that included in your estimate ? No ; it is not included. 

938. But so far as the scheme is at present concerned you think this £1,297,042 might be taken as fairly 
correct? Tes ; but I will check the figures given carefully. I feel some hesitation, at the present 
moment, in speaking as to it. 

939. Did you give these figures to Mr. Holmes ? No ; one of my officers gave the first figures on that 
statement. I will give now the total cost of the work to the 1st June, the date on which I got my 
returns for the western suburbs work included in the £830,304, plus the completion of the western 
outfall sewer, £48,374, making a total of £878,678 : The total cost of the works to the 1st June com- 
prised in that sum is £509,829, and the estimated cost of completing the works included in that sum is 
£246,033, or a total of £755,862 — a difference between the estimate given by Mr. Stayton, in favour of 
the work when it will be executed, of about £120,000. 

940. That is to say, you will save £120,000 on Mr. Stayton's estimate given to the Public Works Com- 
mittee? Tes. I have here the cost of the northern system, as far as the Public Works Department is 
concerned ; but perhaps I need not trouble the Commission with that. 

941. I think we need not trouble with that, because the great discrepancy is in the western ; you see 
the figures given by Mr. Holmes are the figures given by you, so there is no discrepancy in that? Perhaps 
it will be necessary for me to say a word with regard to the stormwater channels. The cost of the storm- 
water channels up to date is £203,726 ; but included in that sum are the following sewers and sums 
which I anticipate will not be transferred to the Board, because the sewers are really necessitated by the 
reclamations. They are as follows : — 

£ s. d. 

University Orphan School Creek 1,218 7 3 

Neutral Bay 5,374 17 6 

Careening Cove 1,200 

Johnston's Creek 8,500 

1,152 15 8 

Callan Park Eeclamation ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 17 9 5 

Long Cove Creek 661 5 6 

There is an amount of £8,185 12s. Id. for Beattie-street, Balmain, a proportion of which only will be 
charged to the Board ; but I am not in a position to say what proportion. The stormwater channels 
under construction are estimated to cost £25,986, £6,000 of which will not be chargeable to the Board. 

942. What will that come to. You see the Board give the cost of the stormwater sewers to date as 
£134,000 odd, and the amount required to complete as £65,000 odd, total £300,000 ? That is £202,266, 
approximately the same as the Board gives. ° 

943. Is there anything else you wish to say? Not with regard to the cost. 

944. Then we might take that £1,279,042 as being a fair statement ? Yes. 

945. I think you suggested that some of the amounts charged here to the western system ought really to 
go to some of the other outfalls ? Well, what I say is this, that the continuation of the northern system 
into Balmain from the junction of the Newtown and Parramatta Eoads to the termination is included in 
that sum ; in addition to which is included the completion of the southern system. 

946. That should undoubtedly come out. Can you tell me what that amount should be? I might 
explain that the whole of the area dealt with by Mr. Stayton, including the completion of the northern 
system, the completion of the southern system, and the initiation and completion of the western system, 
was included in what was known as the western suburbs scheme, and that accounts for the sums being 

included 



*P EOYAL COMMISSION ON METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 

J|Davi8. included in the way they are. Mr. Stayton, in preparing his statement, debited the western suburbs 

13 S t- 1897 s ?' leme > *^ e area ^at ne dealt with, with a proportion of the cost of the Bondi outfall, and also a propor- 

• e P •' • tion of the cost of the southern outfall. Those sums be made as follows : — Northern outfall, proportion 

of cost £S8,000, southern outfall and sewage farm £186,000, making a total of £274,000 ; it was money 

actually spent. 

9t7. The meaning of that is that a portion of that expenditure would be required for the completion 
of the southern and northern areas ? No. The money had actually been spent at the time of the report, 
and he credits the western suburbs area with the amounts I have given. 

918. In other words a portion of the work had been carried out chargeable to the votes which had been 
taken up to that time, but should really have been debited to the western suburbs scheme ? Tes. 

949. Now, I should like to know how such of the moneys given here as chargeable to the western suburbs, 
scheme should really have been debited to the northern and southern schemes ? As far as the northern 
system is concerned £122,927 10s. lOd. ; that contains an estimate of £12,000 for a contract that is 
not let. 

950. Still that ought to be taken out. Now, the other ? £13,345 6s. 6d. 

951. That is £136,272 17s. 4d., and Mr. Holmes's estimate should be reduced by that? These are the 
actual figures prepared from the accountant's books. 

952. And they should be deducted from the estimate for the western suburbs ? Tes. I should like to 
point out this, that in that reticulation of £323,000 given there, there would no doubt be a like propor- 
tion that has been carried out in conjunction with the northern and southern systems. 

953. Now, about the storm water ducts. The Board state that you have spent a larger sum on the storm- 
water ducts than the actual necessities of the sewerage scheme demand — that is to say, that you have 
carried out what ought to have been municipal stormwater sewers as if they belonged to the sewerage 
system proper? The stormwater ducts above, where they can be made use of as overflows, would cer- 
tainly not be adjuncts to the sewerage scheme proper, but at the same time the special circumstances 
under which the stormwater channels were carried out have to be borne in mind. At that time it is well 
known that these creeks were in a very insanitary condition, and there was very much fever in the western 
suburbs, and the two questions were considered, the providing of overflows for the sewerage system, and 
dispensing with a very undesirable state of things, and it was concluded that the best plan would be to 
carry out these ducts, which could be executed very quickly, in anticipation of the scheme. No doubt, if 
you look at the ducts strictly in accordance with the sewerage system itself, there is a proportion, only a 
small proportion though, that is not absolutely necessary for the overflows. 

954. How much do you thiuk that would come to? I have never looked into the thing carefully. I can 
do that if you wish the information, but I should say not more than 10 per cent. 

955. So that £20,000 would cover that? Tes. The upper portions of the channel are small, and these 
are the parts which would not be required ; and the lower portion would be required, and they are the 
costly portions. 

956. "When the sewerage works proper are carried out I suppose the upper parts of the stormwater 
sewers which are now used to carry off the foul water will not be necessary at all ? They will not be neces- 
sary to carry sewage, but still they will be useful as stormwater ducts, and then it might be a question 
whether the municipality would not have to do that work themselves ; but seeing that the ducts were 
required at the time for the purpose of carrying off the liquid sewage, in anticipation of the sewerage 
proper, there is no question the Government did what was right in carrying them out. 

957. As a matter of fact, will not the people have good value for their money even if they have to pay a 
higher rate for it ? I think so. 

958. Do you think £20,000 would be sufficient to pay for the excessive stormwater ducts over and 
above the stormwater ducts proper? Tes. The question of stormwater ducts is no new scheme. I can 
read several quotations from Mr. Stayton's report in which he contemplates that they should be carried 
out. First of all, in page 15 of the appendix attached to the Committee's report, in Mr. Stayton's report 
he refers to the existing drains, and advises that those drains that have been constructed and can be made 
use of should be taken over from the municipal councils, and that has been done. 

" Several of the municipal councils have expended considerable sums of money from time to time in 
the construction of drains and culverts in various streets for the removal of refuse water from 
the surface channels. The adoption of these measures may have afforded relief in the immediate 
vicinity, but the nuisance has only been removed to an adjacent watercourse or creek. Although 
these works cannot be otherwise regarded than as temporary expedients for the removal of liquid 
refuse, they may, however, be hereafter utilised with advantage for the removal of surf ace waters 
during rainfall." 

Then, on page 19, referring to the necessity for overflows to assist the proposed sewers, he says : — 

" The proposed sewers are designed to carry off the foregoing combined quantities when flowing 
about three-quarters full, but should a heavier rate of rainfall occur during the six hours of 
maximum sewage flow the excess of stormwater would be carried off by overflow-weirs, which 
would act as safety-valves in case of sudden emergency. It must be borne in mind that the 
capacity of the sewers is such that several years must necessarily elapse before the actual catch- 
ment area would become so great a« to cause over-charging or back-flooding. This, however, 
could always be prevented by making sufficient stormwater overflows, or by providing relief 
sewers hereafter as may be found necessary. The small quantity of sewage contained in 
stormwater so discharged into natural watercourses would be so greatly diluted as to be rendered 
perfectly unobjectionable." 

Then, again, on page 30 of his report he refers to the stormwater drainage in a paragraph which he devotes 

to that subject, and he says : — 

" A sewerage scheme alone will certainly not meet the whole of the sanitary requirements of the 
westerr) suburbs. The frequent floods at Marrickville Valley, and the removal of stormwaters 
generally, is a question which must necessarily be dealt with ; and although no sum is included 
in the foregoing estimate for sewers and other works, the following remarks will show that the 
subject has received careful investigation ; that it has been fully considered ; and that the 
execution of certain works is absolutely necessary." 

Then 



SEWEBAGE BOABD — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. »» 

Then he goes on to detail the works at the Marrickville Valley, for which he includes the sum of £30,000 J- Davis, 
in his estimate. Then on page 31 of the Appendix, referring to creeks and watercourses generally, he n /T^~T~]>,- 
says : — r 

" The necessity for utilising the existing creeks for the removal of rainfall has already been strongly 
urged. Natural streams or watercourses should not be arched over to form sewers, but should 
be improved, regulated, and lined in accordance with local requirements, in order to morereadily 
remove surface water and extreme falls of rain." 
In addition to that the Committee, on page 14, refer to the same subject : — 

" An excessive combination of rain-water with sewage dilutes the sewage to a degree that injures it 
as a fertiliser, and the admission to the sewers of more than a certain proportion of rainfall 
would necessitate the construction of larger sewers than are considered desirable ; and therefore 
Mr. Stayton recommends that a certain catchment area should be allowed for back-yards and 
for roof surfaces, and that the other part of the rainfall should be conducted to the street 
channels, whence it would flow into storm-water drains or culverts, and be discharged into 
natural watercourses." 
Then again on page 10, section 13 : — 

" Storm-water may cause considerable difficulty in any system of sewerage, and the subject has not 
been overlooked in the present proposals. Overflow weirs will carry off any excess of storm- 
water, or, if necessary, at some future time, relief sewers can be provided, and the small quantity 
of sewage contained in storm-water so discharged into natural watercourses would be so greatly 
diluted, it is considered, as to render it perfectly unobjectionable. These provisions for storm- 
water would not be sufficient to prevent flooding in a portion of the Marrickville Valley, and for 
the effectual draining of that locality from any excess of storm-water certain special works 
would have to be carried out. The same thing would probably be necessary in other localities." 
I was going to say that when the Johnston's Creek Storm-water Channel was submitted to the Public 
Works Committee they regarded the question as being virtually settled by this Committee, and that it 
was simply a matter of form to submit the storm-water channel to them ; so that, all through, I think it 
was contemplated that these storm-water channels would have to be carried out ; and therefore the action 
of the Department in carrying them out when they did, in order to get over a very serious difficulty, was 
what was perfectly justifiable. 

959. Now we come to the question of the revenue ? The question of the revenue estimated by Mr. Stayton 
when dealing with the proposal included in the Western Suburbs Scheme, is dealt with in his report on 
page 29 and page 30. He says : — 

" According to particulars recently ascertained from the various council clerks, and from other 
sources, it appears that at the commencement of the past year, the annual ratable value of the 
nineteen boroughs and municipalities which constitute the area included in the scheme, amounted 
to £1,460,000. During the two previous years the ratable value of the whole of the suburban 
area increased no less than 35 per cent., and it may reasonably be assumed that the subsequent 
increase in the western portion has at least maintained a similar rate. Under theso circum- 
stances the ratable value will probably amount to at least £2,000,000, at the end of 1889, in 
which case a rate of Id. in the £ throughout the area to be sewered would produce about £8,300." 

960. What date was that ? That was the 10th January, 1888. 

961. That is really the assessment of 1887 ? Tes. Then he deals with the interest, and with repayment, 
on page 30, and shows that if the money could be got for 3k per cent., repayable in sixty years, the rate 
which it would be necessary to strike would be 5'12d. in the £ per annum. That is, on the basis that the 
property to be rated would be £2,000,000. 

962. He reckons upon a 35 per cent, increase on the previous year ? Tes. In his evidence on page 5, 
he goes more fully into it, and hands to the Committee another statement. In answer to Question 111 
he handed in Appendix C2, and in doing so he remarks as follows : — ■ 

" This has a very important bearing on the question. It shows^that the ratable value, which, in 1884, 

was £1,116,000, is now £1,700,000; and that on the completion of the first three sections, 

according to the present rate of increase, it would be at least £2,200,000, in which case a penny 

rate would produce £8,900 net. At the final completion of the entire scheme in, say, from 

fifteen to twenty years' time, when the population will be double or nearly treble what it was 

1887, the ratable Value may be fairly estimated at £3,300,000, in which case a penny rate would 

produce £13,400 net." 

Then the statement shows the amount of interest and the amount of rate. It also shows that in 1884 the 

ratable value of the nineteen boroughs and districts comprised in the western suburbs of Sydney and 

included in the scheme was £1,116,000 ; in 1886 it] was £1,437,000 ; in 1887, £1,571,000 ; and in 1888, 

£1,700,000 ; and he goes on to say that in 1894 the annual ratable value will have increased at that rate 

to £2,200,000. 

963. Now we want to know the final figures put before the Committee as to the revenue to be derived ? 
The Committee in their report on page 16, section 29, in dealing with the rate, go into the matter very 
fully, and evidently adopt Mr. Stayton's view. After discussing the propriety of getting the interest 
reduced to 3i per cent., they go on on the supposition that it will be 3J per cent., and then they say : — 

" The sewerage rate upon the cost of the works immediately before the Committee, £S30,304, would 
be, under the existing Act, 6'68d., and under the extended period for the repayment of the loan, 
5-12d. ; but as this deals with only a portion of the entire scheme, and the entire scheme must 
eventually be carried out, it is advisable that the people of the western suburbs should under- 
stand what they ultimately will be called upon to pay, and that as already stated, will be 7d. or 
6jd. This rate will provide interest, repayment and working expenses." 

964. Tou have read Mr. Holmes' statement as to the financial results ; we shall be glad to hear any 
remarks you have to make as to that? With regard to the cost of the works, the evidence that I have 
given shows pretty conclusively that the cost will be within the estimate — well within the estimate. That 
arises, not from faulty estimate's, but from the fact that the cost of work has materially decreased since the 
estimate was made, and, moreover, during the progress of the works it has been found advisable to make 
certain alterations that were contemplated in a way by Mr. Stayton, because he had meagre information 
on which to prepare his scheme, and we have been able to make great improvements, which will save very 

large 



48 EOXAI, COMMISSION ON METBOPOLITAN WATEE SUPPLY AND 

J. Davis, large sums of money ; 'so that what with the reduced cost of the work, and the saving that we have been 

t ~"-"-\ able to make through altering the lines and other things, we shall be well within the mark when the work 

13 Sept., 1897. j s finished. Then with regard to the revenue, I think that the figures that I give speak for themselves. 

The estimate has not been realised. The fact that the ratable value of property has gone down 

probably by 50 per cent., or even more, is the cause of the difference. 

965. The Committee say it will cost 6id. or 7d. in the £ ; Mr. Holmes shows that it will cost 2s. 2d. in 
the £. Apparently the Committee's estimate is based on the main works, leaving out the reticulation ? 
I do not think so. With regard to that the Committee, in paragraph 28, the one preceding that dealing 
with rate, state that the complete scheme is to cost £1,817,896, and in paragraph 29, after mentioning 
the £830,304, they say: — 

" But as this deals with only a portion of the entire scheme, and the entire scheme must eventually 
be carried out, it is advisable that the people of the western suburbs should understand what 
they ultimately will be called upon to pay, and that, as already stated, will be 7d. or 6|d." 

966. Then you see there is a discrepancy of Is. 7d. in the £ between the 7d. and the 2s. 2d., and that you 
say is due to the drop in the value of property ? I think Mr. Stayton's estimate is on the ratable value 
of the whole of the property, while the Board's estimate is on the property that will connect. He 
estimates that £-100,000 will construct the whole of the reticulation and his estimate is on that. This is 
quite clear. To begin with, 400 miles of reticulation were included in the estimate for the complete 
scheme at £1,000 per mile. That £400,000, it was thought and estimated at the time, would reticulate the 
whole of the area chat would be covered by these main sewers, and comprised in the "Western Suburbs 
Sewerage Scheme. 

967. Tou point out that 7d. in the £ evidently includes the whole of the ratable area ? Certainly. 

968. Although a great deal of it is not intended to be reticulated from the sum given in the estimate of 
the capital cost? I think it was intended to be reticulated, aud that that 7d. in the £ contemplated that the 
scheme would be complete in every respect. The Committee evidently looked at it in its complete state, 
and they evidently got an estimate from Mr. Stay ton comprising the whole of the money that would have 
to be spent in order to complete it, and then they went to work to see what revenue they would require 
to pay for that. 

969. The figures you have now brought out show a very startling discrepancy between the figures given 
to the Public Works Committee and those now given to the Commission ; we ask you, in concert 
with Mr. Holmes, to revise the whole matter, and bring before us a revised estimate in which an explana- 
tion can be given of the discrepancy between the figures previously given and those now supplied ? Mr. 
Holmes, very naturally and properly, looks at it from a different standpoint to what Mr. Stayton did. 

970. What we want to do is to find out what Mr. Stayton really meant, and then we can show how the 
figures have completely altered since then. Tou can find out what that 7d. in the £ meant ;— did it mean 
the whole of the ratable area, and was the whole of the reticulation included in the capital sum ? I am 
satisfied in regard to that. 

971. I hardly think it can be ; — otherwise you do not agree with Mr. Holmes ? I am perfectly sure on 
both points, both in regard to the reticulation and the rate that will be necessary. There were no plans 
prepared for reticulation. The streets were measured up, and sewers were provided for each street. 



WEDNESDAY, 15 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 

PEESENT: — 

JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., J.P., Pbesident. 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq, J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq., J.P. 
Joseph Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Public Works Department, further examined : — 
J. Davis, 972. President^ When we last met it was shown that the distribution of the capital debt, as given to us 
r — ^-«^— s by Mr. Holmes, was not quite correct. It was found necessary to revise the whole estimate, and you and 
15Sept.,1897. Mr. Holmes were requested to jointly look into the matter, and then come before us to-day and report 
the result. Of course it is understood that the fault in the estimate was not due to Mr. Holmes ? In so 
far as the estimate of the ultimate cost of the works is concerned, I am able to give the result ; Mr. 
Holmes will be able to supply the rest. The main sewers comprised in the western suburbs proper are 
estimated to cost £619,590. The storm-water channels are estimated to cost £155,000, as against 
£200,000 shown in previous statement ; and the reticulation sewers, 1 understand, remain as they were, 
£323,180. 

973. And that will make up a total of ? £1,077,770. 

974. That is against the estimate already given of £1,297,042 ? That is so. 

975. Tou will now be able to give us the explanation of the difference between this estimate and that given 
by Mr. Stayton as the cost of the whole work, £1,S17,S96 ? Mr. Stayton, in the grand total named, 
included the following sums which are not included in the total given, £1,077,770 : — 

£ 

Proportionate part of Northern Outfall 8S,000 

Proportionate part of Southern Outfall and Sewerage Farm 186,000 

Canterbury ana Enfield Main Sewer, first part ~ 20,741 

Marrickville Storm-water Drainage 20,000 

Completion of Canterbury and Enfield Main Sewer 65,410 

Low-level Systems, Shone's 119,050 

Completion of Marrickville Pumping Station 6,817 

Completion of Sewage Earm 32,600 

Reticulation 76,S20 

Estimated saving 122,816 

976. Did not the Committee, in arriving at the rate of 7d. in the £, reckon in the capital cost of those items 
you have excised ? Tes ; they looked at it somewhat differently to what the scheme is looked at now. 
The scheme before the Commission is the western suburbs system proper. The Public Works Committee, 



SEWERAGE BOARD— MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



49 



in considering the scheme, included, in addition to the area under consideration now, a large portion of J - D » T18 - 
the northern system, and also a portion of the southern system, together with a proportion of the cost of 1 fT^~^7^ 7 
the outfalls of those two last-mentioned systems. '' 

977. Will it not be necessary to take those works in with a view to striking a rate in connection with the 
areas to which the works referred ? If there is to be a comparison made with the rate arrived at by the 
Public Works Committee, then certainly. 

978. If we are to make a comparison with what the Public Works Committee did we must cover the same 
ground ? Yes ; if you are to make a comparison you must look at it from the same point of view that 
they looked at it. 

979. Ton say those works will have to be carried out? Tes ; the works that I have indicated as not being 
required for the present will eventually be carried out, no doubt ; and then will be the time when you can 
compare actually the figures you get at the completion with the estimate. 

980. But, in the meantime, this 7d. rate was given as the outcome of larger works than are included now? 
Tes ; and also a portion of the northern and southern systems. 

981. We shall have to modify Mr. Holmes's estimate of the rates required for the other system ? Exactly ; 
but I would like to point out this to the Commission it is very difficult, if not almost impossible, to get the 
comparison with what the Public Works Committee had before them. In order to get at what the rate 
would be likely to be, they made an estimate, and to check what they did would be almost impossible. At 
this stage, most certainly, it will be their figures against ours — that is to say, their estimate against ours. 

982. Then the £1,077,770 will cover the whole of the western suburbs system ? Tes. 

983. And the other figures will have to be added on ? Tes ; while on that subject I would like to say 
that I give it as my opinion for what it is worth that it is a most dangerous thing to look at one area of 
the sewerage district apart from the other areas. I am of opinion that it will get those concerned into 
all kinds of complications, and it does seem to me that in all matters of government there are those 
directly concerned and those indirectly concerned, and those indirectly concerned have to pay in just the 
same as those directly concerned. 

984. Then you argue that the citizens of Sydney should bear the same rate as the people of the western 
suburbs to pay for works in the western suburbs ? I say the citizens of Sydney are interested indirectly 
in the sewerage of the western suburbs, and I should say that you should look at it as a whole the same 
as with the water supply ; although the western suburbs can be isolated, in regard to the sewers. But 
the western suburbs scheme cannot be wholly isolated, because it must be looked at in conjunction with 
the southern system. The same farm will be used to treat the sewage and the same staff of men will be 
required to deal with the sewage on the farm ; and which part of the farm will be used for the western 
suburbs, and which part for the southern, it is almost impossible to say. In that way they run together ; 
otherwise, in regard to the sewers, they are isolated. But as a matter of policy I question the propriety 
of isolating the western suburbs from the other suburbs of Sydney and the City of Sydney itself. 
Under existing circumstances I understand that Randwick, which is quite by itself and has no connection 
whatever with either the northern or southern systems, is rated under existing circumstances precisely the 
same as the city and the other districts such as Newtown, Alexandria, and Waterloo. 

985. Would it be the case in regard to Pandwick, that the debt incurred there would require a greater 
rate ? I am not in a position to say. I have made the statement after due consideration, and I feel sure 
that it is of sufficient importance to warrant the matter being very seriously thought out before any 
departure is made from the present system. 

986. Tou say then that it is practically impossible to separate the southern and western systems? I say 
it is quite impossible in regard to the disposal of the sewage. 

987. Would that apply to the northern ? No. If it is thought desirable to look at it as an utterly 
separate system, then, no doubt, the northern can be isolated, and the western suburbs too, as far as the 
sewers are concerned, but not the disposal of the sewage. 

988. Even in regard to the northern system it is one management and would have to he apportioned ? 
Tes. 

999. Can you tell us what is the actual difference hetween the estimated cost and what will be the actual 
cost ? I think the best way to answer that question would be to say that there will be sufficient saved in 
the construction of the main sewers approximately, to cover the cost of the stormwater channels which 
were not included in the estimate first submitted. I estimate that there will be saving of £122,000. 

990. Is it a fact that some of the works excised from that £1,817,896 will be required for the western 
suburbs, such as Marrickville Valley ? I think so. 

991. Are you not putting in pumping engines now ? That is included in the estimate. 

992. What is the additional pumping shown ? That is for the extension of the pumping plant which will 
not be reguired until the population has greatly increased, and in that way the rates would be greatly 
increased too. 

993. So that can be left out altogether? Tes. The first instalment is included in the estimate. If you 
were to divide up the systems you would find one part of a borough on one side of the street paying a 
very high rate, and another part of the borough on the other side of the street paying a comparatively 
low rate. 

994. Even the southern system is complicated with the northern system ? Most certainly, and the only 
line oftdemarcation to my mind is the fact that one portion of the sewage flows one way and the other 
flows the other way. 

995. That is to say, one side of the street might be paying a very high rate and the other side a very low 
rate, about half ? Tes ; because of the sewage flowing different ways. 

996. How long will it take to complete the sewerage works included in that estimate of yours ? The bulk 
of it will be finished in three years. There may be a little sweeping up after that. 

997. May we say the whole will be complete in four years ? It should be. 

998. The bulk will be completed in three years ? Tes. 

999. Did you look into that question of the 400 miles of sewers estimated by Mr. Stayton ? Tes ; the 
400 miles included in the estimate, which he said would cost £400,000, was intended to reticulate the 
whole of the area that he provided for in his scheme, both in the northern, southern, and western suburbs 
schemes. When Mr. Stayton was asked to report he was not asked to deal with any set of suburbs 

separately. 
278— G 



oU EOYAL COilHISSION 0~S 1IETEOPOLITA5T WATEE SUPPLY AMD 

J. Davis. separately. If lie could have taken all the northern outfall he would have done so, hut he found it neces- 
-'q*^* — "* sar y *° * a ^ e some to different outfalls. 

9 P •' • 1000. Will you and Mr. Holmes, in conjunction, get out a statement in which the southern and western 
suburbs are combined, and strike a rate? Tea. 

1001. And in quoting that rate of 7d. I think you said the Public "Works Committee included these items, 
that you have excised ? Yes. 

1002. So, in giving this similar estimate, it means a comparison of say 7d. in the £ as against what we 
shall require now ? I am not sure about that, because the outfall sewer will serve for the ultimate popu- 
lation and the ultimate revenue, and then the ramifications of the system only want extending, and they 
are less costly, so that it would tell the other way — the costly work being carried out really in anticipation. 
We have provided for people and for rates that we have not got at present. 

1003. So that when you carry out the additional works you will bring in a much larger population ? 
Exactly. The Board have recognised the same principle in their reticulation. They say that they must 
have areturn for the reticulation of 6 per cent. That means that they have already anticipated the re- 
ticulation in the main works, and that they want to recoup themselves for that. 

William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan Water and Sewerage Board, further examined : — 
W. Holmes. 1001. President.'] I believe you and Mr. Davis have conferred with regard to the ultimate cost of the 
nfs*"*"""^ sewera 8 e wor ks ? Tes, in regard to the cost, and I have written this memorandum : — " As a result of the 
15 bept.,1897. conference between Mr. Davis and myself, at the wish of the Commission, I have prepared an amended 
statement showing the probable total cost of the scheme when completed to be £1,077,770 as against 
£1,272,049 as per previous statement submitted by me, Mr. Davis having pointed out that the latter sum 
included the sum of £136,272 which was really expended on the sewerage works draining into the main 
northern and main southern outfalls ; and should not. therefore, be debited to the western suburbs. A 
reduction has also been made in the cost of stormwater channels — the item £65,000, which was shown as 
the sum required to complete, having been deleted, as Mr. Davis is of opinion that no further expenditure 
under this head will be necessary. The amount for stormwater channels, therefore, now appears as 
£135,000. I have ascertained beyond a doubt that the item £323,1S0 entered in my first statement will 
all be required for the reticulation sewers within the gravitation areas draining into the western suburbs 
outfall. Taking the assessed annual values of the properties at present in existence, as given in my 
previous memorandum, I have calculated what the rate required would be on four different bases, as 
follows : — 

" (1) Charging one general rate on all properties within the municipalities concerned, in both gravi- 
tation and low-level areas, Is. l|d. in the £ will be required." 
This is contemplating keeping the whole of the western suburbs separate. 

" (2) Charging one general rate on properties within the gravitation areas, Is. lOd. will be required. 
" (3) Charging a health rate on all properties within both the gravitation and low-level areas, to meet 
interest on permanent works, and annual instalment on renewable works, 9Jd. in the £ will be 
required. Charging a special or sewerage rate on properties within the gravitation areas to 
provide expenses of maintenance and management, 6^d. in the £ will be required. Total rate 
on properties in gravitation areas, Is. 4d. in the £. Total rate on properties in low-level areas, 
9M. in the £. 
" (4) Charging a health rate on all properties within both gravitation and low-level areas, to meet 
interest on permanent works only, 6-i-d. in the £ will be required. Charging a special or sewerage 
rate on all properties within the gravitation area to provide annual instalment on renewable 
works and meet expenses of maintenance and management, llf d. in the £ will be required. 
Total rate on properties in gravitation areas, Is. 5f d. in the £. Total rate on properties in the 
low-level area, 6|d. in the £." 
" In dealing with this matter it is very difficult to satisfactorily compare the estimate of revenue fur- 
nished by Mr. Stayton, with the figures now supplied, as Mr. Stayton's report all through deals with the 
drainage of about nineteen separate municipalities, six of which, though classed as western suburbs, 
really drain into the Bondi and Botany main outfalls; whereas the districts dealt with in this memo- 
randum are those which will discharge into the main western suburbs outfall at. Arncliffe. The report 
clearly anticipated that a rate of 6id. or 7d. in the £ on all premises within the areas to be drained would 
be sufficient on the final completion to provide interest, repayment, and working expenses ; but this 
estimate was based upon the assumption, at that time a reasonable one, that the assessed annual value of 
properties would enormously increase ; whereas the reverse has actually happened, as will be seen from 
the following figures : — 

"Year. Mr. Stayton's Estimate. Actual Talues. 

"18S9 £2,000,000 £1,656,842 

"1894 £2,200,000 £1,633,300 

•' It was also estimated that the ratable values on the final completion of the entire scheme would be 
£3,300,000 ; but it is not at all likely that this will he even approached, as the assessed values, according 
to last returns (1S97-8), have receded still further, and now amount to £1,478,595. It must he remem- 
bered that although the rates per £ appear high, the assessments have been reduced in some instances as 
much as 50 per cent." I think the crux of the whole thing is in those figures. 

1005. It would be as well now to combine the southern and the western, and strike a rate, and also strike 
a rate over the whole area ? The same difficulty crops up when you are dividing the southern from the 
northern ; there is a portion of Bedf ern which goes one way, and a portion goes the other way. 

1006. Have you anything to say about Mr. Davis's evidence, that the different districts should not be 
separated? The matter was discussed at the Board meeting, and it was considered then that in the report 
of the Public Works Committee on this scheme, all through, it was laid down most clearly, that the 
residents of the western suburbs would have to find the necessary funds for this scheme, and it was looked 
upon by some members of the Board that it would be rather unfair if the city had to pay an increased 
rat? of 3d. or 4d. in the £ to provide a sewerage system for districts 9 or 10 miles away. Of course a 
diffhulty would crop up where there was. a ridge in a municipality, and one portion of the drainage went 
to the Botany outfall and the other portion to the western suburbs, or to Bondi ; and the same thing 
happens in regard to the stormwater areas. Perhaps there is a stormwater channel here and another one 

there 



SEWEKAQE BOAED — MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 51 

there [indicating] : the rate in this one would he only 3d., and the rate on that one 7d., and the houBes on W. Holmes, 
one side of the street on the top of the ridge would be paying 3d., while those on the other side of the / K — ■* 
street were paying 7d. 15 Sept., 1897. 

1007. Mr. Wilson.'] How is this dealt with in Melbourne ? I understand they have one general health 
rate and one special rate. I do not know whether they charge the special rate. I knowthey charge the 
health rate, and it extends back a long distance. Of course, it has not been definitely decided ; the Board 
did not have this before them to strike the rate, but simply to get power in the bill to be able to strike 
the rate if it is decided to treat the two areas separately. 

1008. President.'] Tou say the 8 per cent, would be about Is. 7d. in the £ ; — is that sufficient ? No ; but 
of course, as I pointed out in my previous memorandum, my figures are simply based on the properties 
now in existence, and there may be an increase, although judging from past experience there may not. 

1009. Mr. Wilson.] The increase may be balanced by a further fall in values ? Tes ; they have been 
falling since 1889. 

1010. President.] Now, how much have you included for reticulation? I have put down £323,180. It 
is usually looked upon as £1,000 per mile. 

1011. So that you have not included so much ? Only the portions draining to Arncliffe. The other esti- 
mate includes portions draining to Botany. 

1012. Will that include all the reticulation that will be necessary ? Tes. All through the Committee's 
report it is considered that the interest will be paid by the western suburbs : — " On the scheme as a whole 
must be calculated a sewerage rate which the residents of the western suburbs will have to pay." And 
further on the report goes on to say : " The money required for the proposed works will have to be ob- 
tained by loan, and to that extent the public indebtedness of the Colony will be increased ; but the interest, 
and, within a fixed period the principal, will be paid by the residents of the western suburbs. The general 
public will not be called upon to contribute in any degree." 

1013. Tou think that the Public Works Committee in dealing with the matter looked upon it as a problem 
which the western suburbs would have to solve ? I do, sir ; and their representatives were given to 
understand at that meeting which the Minister for Works presided over that they would have to pay as a 
separate scheme. 

1014. Tou have given in your statement what rate would be required if the whole of the sewerage were 
looked upon as one ? Tes. 

1015. Tou have not given it as applying to the southern and western ? No. 

1016. I think we had better have it in that way. Will you, in conjunction with Mr. Davis, get out a 
statement in which the southern and western suburbs are combined, and strike a rate ? Tes. 

MONDAY, 20 SEPTEMBER, 1897. 

Pbesent : — 

JOSEPH BARLING, Esq., J.P., President. 

GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq., J.P. 

JAMES POWELL, Esq., J.P. 

Joseph Davis, Engineer for Sewerage Construction, Public Works Department, further examined : — 

1017. President.] When you were last before us you were asked to give us certain information as to the J. Davis, 
cost of the sewerage works divided up into districts ? Tes. r — ^-»--— \ 

1018. What is the result? The ultimate coat of the main sewers draining into Bondi would be 20 Sept.,1897. 
£1,039,932 ; that for the southern outfall to Botany, £310,502 ; to Randwick, £42,759 ; the western 

suburbs, as already given, amount to £619,590 for the main works, and for the stormwater channels 
£135,000 ; and at North Sydney, £110,000 for the main works and £10,000 for the stormwater channels. 

1019. I think we asked you to put more emphatically the view you gave us the other day as to the almost 
impossibility of dividing up the systems as between the western suburbs out all and the southern out- 
fall ? The returns that have been prepared will show that, as a matter of fact, it will make very little 
difference whether they are divided or not ; that is to say, the rate that will be required for the south will 
be almost precisely the same as that required for the west, so that as far as those two systems are con- 
cerned it will not make any material difference whether they are assessed as one or two. The northern 
outfall is different, inasmuch as it is quite by itself, and has an advantage over the west and south, because 
it comprises pretty well the whole of the city. 

1020. It is a very thickly-populated area ? Tes ; and, while it has attained pretty well nine-tenths of the 
ultimate population, the western and southern, I suppose, have not attained more than half the ultimate 
population, so that the cost of the works for the northern district can be paid without very much trouble 
by the population at present occupying the area drained, while in the west and the south the population 
have to pay for the works as a whole, although there are not more than half the people that can be served 
by those works settled there. 

1021. Is it a fact that the capital expenses would remain the same if there were double the population ? 
Tes ; I have prepared a statement which will give the approximate position of that aspect of the case. 
The present population is about 190,000 supplied by the western suburbs outfall scheme ; the ultimate 
population provided for in the sewers is about 372,000, so that although we shall have to spend £1,077,770 on 
the western system, and that will provide for a population of 372,000, a population of 190,000 will have 
to pay for it. 

1022. Practically the capital charge will remain the same when the population is doubled ? Tes. 

1023. In other words, the population now have to pay double the rates they will have to pay when the 
area is fully populated ? That is the approximate position. 

1024. Of course, when the Public Works Committee arrived at their estimates they had the idea that it 
would be pretty well populated by that time ? They thought that the population would increase very 
much faster than it has. 

1025. And that is where the trouble has come in ? Tes ; in addition the ratable value has very much 
decreased, and the population has become stationary, or nearly so. The intercepting of the low-level 
sewerage is included in the figures given, but that will give no new revenue. 

1026. Will you have a plan tinted showing the parts that are not included in those estimates ? Tes. 

■ ■ : L ■ William 



OS EOTAL COMMISSION OS METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND 

W. Holmes. "William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan "Water Supply and Sewerage Board, further examined : — 
oq g t 189 . 1027. President.'] Tou have prepared returns ? At the request of the Commission I hare conferred with 
v '' ' Mr. Davis. 

1028. Tou and he both agree now as to the capital cost? Tes ; I have got from Mr. Davis a statement 
of the capital cost of the Government works, but it does not come within £63,000 of the figures which 
we previously received from the Public "Works Department; that is, we have the capital debt set down in 
our books £63,000 for permanent works more than the figures now supplied by Mr. Davis ; but Mr. 
Davis's officer has been very carefully through it, and I understand is satisfied that the figures which he 
now hands to us represent the proper amount expended bv the Government on the main work. 1 think 
there has been some overlapping before, so that we have really charged up as our capital debt £63,000 more 
than the figures which Mr. Davis has now given us ; but I have worked out the returns required by the 
Commission on the figures as now supplied to us. 

1029. And which you are satisfied with ? Tes. I have added on to that the cost of the reticulation 
works carried out by the Board, the debentures taken over from the various councils, and the value of all 
land purchased and resumed in connection with the Board's operations, — so that 1 think our statements 
now truly represent what the ultimate cost of the scheme will be when it is completed. I have prepared 
a statement, which I hand in, showing the figures in regard to — (1) the Bondi outfall, (2) the Botany 
outfall, (3) the Eandwick outfall, (4) the districts draining into the western suburbs outfall at Arncliffe, 
(5) the districts draining into the outfall at North Sydney, (G) Botany and western suburbs combined, 
and (7) the whole as one scheme, [vide Appendix.'] On the front page I have tabulated the whole. 
The first column shows the different systems of rating according to the memoranda previously handed in 
by me, and then each following column shows the amount of rate which will have to be struck to get 
sufficient to meet requirements. First there is the Bondi outfall. 

1030. That is as it is now ? Yes ; that is accounted for by the fact that about nine-tenths of the city 
properties drain to Bondi, so that there is a great deal more revenue from the Bondi outfall than from 
any other. Then the Botany outfall is more expensive than Bondi, and Eandwick is a very expensive 
outfall when by itself, because there is very little draining into it. There is a large portion of the Band- 
wick locality sewered already, and draining into Bondi, so that Bondi gets the revenue. 

1031. The Eandwick people draining to Bondi get the benefit of the 7d. rate? Tes. Then the second 
last, the Botany and western suburbs combined, — you asked that a statement might be prepared com- 
bining those two. Tou will see in comparison that there is not very much difference between that and 
the western suburbs by itself. Then the last column of all treats the whole as one scheme. 

1032. This is one general rate on all properties, whether they are connected or not ? Tes ; and the next 
line is one general rate on properties which can be sewered ; and then the next line shows a health rate 
on all properties, and so on. 1 have put the totals there for the sewered areas, and then also the total 
rates outside sewered areas. 

1033. What you propose to do in this is, to charge a general rate of 3d., and then to those who actuallv 
connect 7^d. ? If you treat Bondi by itself that is what would be required ; that is,- under the system of 
charging the health rate on the permanent works only. If you lump the whole lot you will have to 
increase the city properties rate from 7M. to lOfd. In connection with the assessed values, I might state 
that during the last year, although the Board laid 55i miles of water mains and about 30 miles of new 
sewers, bringing in new districts liable to be rated, the total year's assessed rates were £7,500 less than 
the previous year's, showing that the values of properties are still falling. 

1034. Of course, you are charging the rates on the completed works ? Tes. 

1035. Have you allowed for any increase at all in the population ? JS"o, I have not. 

1036. That is, on the ground that it is still going down, and you are, therefore, afraid to to give any 
estimate ? It may become worse than it is. Our total revenue for last year is more, but that is due to a 
large meter consumption, and garden fees, and special rates, but the rates from assessed properties are 
abut £7,500 less. 

037. Have you anything to suggest? No. 

1038. How do propose to deal with Eandwick ? That is charged just the same as the city at present. If 
you separate Eandwick, and charge them on their own outfall, they will have to pay a high rate. 

1039. Why should Eandwick get the benefit of being included in the lower rate, and the western outfall 
be not included ? A great proportion of Eandwick revenue is robbed by Bondi. 

1040. The Bondi sewer gets the benefit of a great deal from Eandwick ? Tes. 

1041. "Would not the same argument apply to Newtown ? Tes ; of course, it is a very different question. 
We make no division at present ; they are all charged the one rate. My reason for looking at the western 
suburbs as a separate scheme was that it was recommended by the Public Works Committee as a separate 
scheme, and the money was voted as a separate scheme, and the residents were always given to understand 
that on that separate scheme the western suburbs would have to pay. 

1042. Have you found out what rates they ought to pay on the expenditure up to the present date, that is, 
supposing the scheme to be completed. I understand thev are not paying nearly enough now ? I have 
given you a return already of the loss on the sewerage for the last year, and I told you it was intended to 
strike off the discount from the first of the vear, and there is a provision in the Amending Bill to raise the 
minimum rate from 10s. to 15s., and that is to overtake this loss to some extent. That is to apply to both 
the water and the sewerage. When the financial clauses are passed there will be charges for accumulated 
interest that will have to be added on to the capital cost. That has never been calculated ; we have never 
been handed the figures. The loss last year was £26,000 for water and sewerage ; £12,000 for the 
former and £14,000 on the latter. Dr. Kendall is preparing a report on the influence of the swerage on 
the mortality from phthisis, and he handed me this morning a portion of his report showing the reduction ' 
in the mortality from 1890 to 1S96 through the laying of sewerage, which I now hand in. 

1043. We should like a return similar to that already handed in showing what would be required to make 
up the deficiency with the capital debt as it stands now. We are dealing with a thing that is not to be 
completed for some four years hence? There would be a very small rise in the rates to provide for the 
deficiency. There is £9,000 for discount, and there would be about £8,000 or £9,000 in the rise in the 
minimum rate, so that a very small increase in the general rate, probably a halfpenny ur a farthing in the 
£, would be sufficient to cover the deficiency. That, at present, is a very small thing. 

1044. And that is due to the fact that the increased expenditure is not carrying with it a proportionate 
increase in revenue ? Tes. 

THURSDAY, 



SEWEBAGE BOABD — MIKTJTES OF EVIDENCE. 53 

THURSDAY, 7 OCTOBER, 1897. 
JJrmnt: — 

JOSEPH BAELING-, Esq, J.P. (President). 
GEORGE ALEXANDER WILSON, Esq, J.P. 
JAMES POWELL, Esq, J.P. 
William Holmes, Secretary to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, further examined: — 

1045. President.] In Mr. Stay ton's report which was submitted to the Public Works Committee he W. Holme6. 
showed that the estimated cost of the sewerage works for the western suburbs would amount to /~~— '~^~\ 
£1,8L7,S90? Tes. 7 Oct., 1897. 

1046. What would be the financial result at the present time, taking that as the basis of cost? In Mr. 
iStayron's report he estimated that about 7d. in the £ would have been sufficient to provide the necessary 
funds, but he was calculating on properties of an ultimate assessed value of £3,300,000. I have worked 
out now for the Commission a table, accepting Mr. Stayton's estimate of cost at £1,817,826, on the 
assessed values of properties in those same boroughs as at present existing. The assessed values, instead 
of being £3,300,01)0, are now about £1,550,000. Therefore, charging interest on the cost of the main 
works at 3i per cent, and an annual instalment to redeem the cost of renewable works in 100 years 
at. 34 per cent, and the maintenance and management at 1-j per cent, I find it will be necessary, instead 
of 7d. in the £, to charge one general rate for the whole area of Is. 2Jd. in the £. This return also 
shows one general rate over the sewered area of Is. 4-j-d, and I have also worked out in the same way as 
the previous returns a health rate and a special rate under the two schemes which were adopted formerly. 
I will now hand in the return. [Vide Appendix ]. 

1047. I gave you a letter which we received from the Secretary to the Melbourne and Metropolitan 
Board of Works, in which he showed the method of rating adopted in Melbourne. We shall be glad to 
see what the result would if that plan were adopted in connection with the Sydney metropolitan works? 
I have looked into that matter, and I find that the assessed value of properties within the municipalities 
which will be outside the sewered area for the present is £707,413 ; the assessed values of properties 
which can be sewered at once is £3, 770, 613 ; or a total value of £4,478,020. The revenue required to be 
provided amounts to £169,354. Twopence in the £ on £707,413, the value of properties which cannot 
at present be sewered, will give £5,895. The amonnt to be provided by the sewerage rate is, therefore, 
£163,459, and to raise this sum a rate of 10-jd. in the £ must be struck on all properties which can be 
sewered. 

1018. This, I think, is as near a comparison as you can make ? Tes. 

1049. The Melbourne plan is to charge a 2d. rate, and a Id. rate on the outside area? The Id. rate is on 
the area which will never be sewered. I have not treated with any area like that. I have treated with 
a low-lving area which will eventually be sewered, but not at present. 

1050. In the capital debt of £6,262,670 I understand you have debited a sum of £103,437 on account of 
works carried out by the Government, and charged to revenue ? Tes. 

1051. Ton have not charged interest on that? Interest has not been charged on that. 

1052. Why have you not charged interest on that ? Because, as it was paid from revenue and not from 
loans, it was thought unnecessary to debit the ratepayers with interest on that, as no interest had to be 
paid on it, and as the whole matter was in an unsettled state — that is, the capital debt has never yet been 
properly ascertained, although the Board has for the past six years been, year after year, writing to the 
Minister with a view to getting that capital debt definitely settled. First of all, Mr. Christie took it in 
hand, but did not complete it. Then the Board approached the Works Department, and it was given to 
Mr. Johnston, an accountant in that Department, but the result of the work of those two gentlemen has 
never been handed over to the Board, and it was thought it was no use making any change until the whole 
thins; was definitely settled, both in regard to the sewerage and the water supply, where there is another 
similar item. 

1053. But as this sum has been obtained from the revenue of the country, do you not think it would be 
lair to the country that they should get the benefit of the interest on it ? I have no doubt that will be 
charged up against the Board when those returns are completed. 

1054. Tou are looking at this merely as a suspense account ? Tes. 

1055. Now, with regard to the sum of £377,382 which has been included in the water supply debt; why 
have you not charged interest on that ? Because we do not look upon it as a debt at all. It is not a 
liability or money that is owing to anybody, and certainly no interest has to be paid upon it by the 
Government. It represents the value of some works which were transferred from the City Council in 
18SS, and which were really paid for from rates collected from the citizens, and as the Government has 
not to pay any interest at all upon it, it was thought that it should be omitted. But the Board has not been 
working on its own responsibility in this matter, as they have on several occasions approached the Minister 
with a view to having that sum wiped off the capital debt, and the reply received by the Board was, that 
it was better to let matters remain as they were, and that when the Amending Bill was passed with the 
financial clauses the whole matter would be settled then, so that the Board has left it. 

1056. Tour contention is that that sum represents the value of the works which have actually been paid 
for out of the revenue of the water-works ? Tes, collected by the Council. 

1057. Of course that stands on a very different footing from the other ? Tes. 

1058. We want you to give us a short statement showing the result of the management of the Liverpool 
AVater-works, and those at Richmond and Campbelltown ? I hand in returns extracted from the last 
Annual Report. The cost of those at Richmond is not included in the Board's capital debt, because the 
source of the supply is outside the. county of Cumberland, and the Board's jurisdiction does not at present 
extend beyond the county of Cumberland ; but in the Amending Bill, which is now in draft, provisions is 
made for extending to any town outside, and then we will have proper powers to rate Richmond, and it 
will be added up then in the Government debt. At present we are simply managing on the Government's 
behalf at the Minister's request. 



APPENDIX. 



54 



APPENDIX. 



KOYAL COMMISSION— METROPOLITAN WATER SUPPLY AND SEWERAGE BOARD, 



APPENDIX. 



A. 

Particulars respecting constitution and expense of Board. 



Surname. 


Christian Name. 


Whether appointed by Governor 
or elected." 


Date of Expiry 
of Office. 


Attendance 
at Meetings during year 
ended 30th June, 1897. 


Rate of Remuneration. 


Amount of 

Salaries 

and Fees paid 

during 

year ended 

30th June, 

1897. 


Meet- 
ings 
held. 


Present. 


Absent. 






Appointed bv Governor 

Appointed by Governor 

Do do 

Elected by City Council 

Elected by Suburban Council 

Do do 


22 Mar., 1900 
22 „ 1900 
22 ,. 1900 
22 „ 1898 
22 „ 1898 

22 „ 1898 

23 „ 1900 


62 
62 
K2 
62 
62 
62 
62 


62 
58 
54 
54 
53 
59 
58 


Nil. 
4 
8 
8 
9 

4 


Salary of £600 per annum... 

j Paid by fees at the rate of . 

£5 per week for one | 
y or more meetings not <J 

to exceed £250 per j 

annum each. 


£ 
600 


Taylor 


250 


Mansfield . . . 
Macplierson... 
Buckle 


Geo. Allen... 
John 


245 
250 


David 


240 
250 




250 













The Board meets weekly on Wednesdays at 11 a.m. Very often a second meeting is held, and in addition visits are paid to works 
completed and in progress. 



The total amount of Salary and Fees paid to Members yearly from date of inception to 
the 30th June, 1S97, was as follows : — 



Year. 


Salary of President.' 


Fees to Members. 


Total. 


18S8 


£ s. d. 
689 10 3 
900 
1,000 
1,000 
60S 17 4 
333 6 8 
250 
125 
530 12 11 
600 


£ s. d. 

564 

993 5 
1,485 
1,485 
1,475 
1,385 
1,445 

750 
1,500 
1,485 


£ s. d. 
1,253 10 3 


1889 


1,893 5 
2,485 


1890 


1891 


2,485 


1892 


2,0S3 17 4 


1893 


1,718 6 8 


1894 


1 695 


1895 


875 


1895-6 


2,030 12 11 


1896-7 


2,085 








6,037 7 2 


12,567 5 


18,604 12 2 



B. ' 

Minutes- of Board Meeting held 28 April, 1897. 

Present : — T. Rowe, Esq., President, in the Chair ; J. Taylor, Esq., Vice-President ; D. Davis, J. Ahearn, G. Allen 

Mansfield, J. Macpherson, and F. Buckle, Esquires. 

1. The minutes of Board meeting held 21st April, 1897, were confirmed. 

2. The Secretary laid on the table a statement of moneys collected from 1st July, 1896, to 24th April, 1S97, showing 
the amount to be.£200, 102 7s., as against £181.371 15s. 9d. for the same period of the previous year, or an increase of 
£18,730 lis. 3d. 

3. From engineer, submitting a diagram showing the height of water in the Prospect reservoir, and a return of the 
quantity discharged into and out of the same during the week ended 24th instant. 

4. From engineer, reporting as to the effect on the water supply of the city and suburbs by the recent rains. 

5. From engineer, reporting that the supply of water to Kippax Lake, Moore Park, had been shut off in accordance 
with the instructions of the Board, and also that the overflow from Wahroongah tanks, complained of by the Vice-President 
at the last meeting, was due to a defect in connection with the electric indicators, but that this matter had been since put 
right. 

6. From engineer, report on a type of concussive tap fixed at the Equitable Buildings, George-street, brought under 
notice by Alderman Davis, and stating he could not recommend the type for general adoption on account of the likelihood of 
causing a ram in the pipes by the sudden shutting off of the water. At the Equitable Buildings, where the fitting was in 
use, the water is controlled by an overhead tank, and the company have accepted all risk in connection with the use of 
the fitting. He also submitted a sample of a non-concussive tap, manufactured by J. Danks and Son, which had been 
subjected to test at the Crown- street reservoir and found satisfactory. 

The Board approved of the concussive tap being used, but only in such positions as will cause no ram in the pipes. 

7. Mr. Buckle drew attention to the large quantity of water consumed in connection with the Botanic Gardens, and 
Mr. Davis also mentioned that he understood that a very large quantity of water would be required for the fountain at 
Governor Phillip's Statue, now being erected in the Palace Garden. 

It was decided that a report be prepared as to the quantity of water consumed in each case. 

8. From engineer, submitting returns showing that during the week ended 24th instant, 1,062 yards of watermains 
were laid, 220 yards cleaned, 86 yards lowered, and 9 hydrants fixed. 



APPENDIX. 55 

9. From comptroller of stores, return of water-pipes received, issued, in stock, and ordered during the week ended 
24th instant. 

10. From assessor, return of summons work carried out in his branch during the week ended 24th instant. 

11. From assessor, return of ten persons reported by the waste-water inspectors for illegally using the water of the 
board for stock, gardens, &o. 

Preferred to the solicitor for prosecution. 

12. The Board approved of the following applications for leave of absence : — 
R. Eagar, assistant district clerk Two weeks. 

T. G. Hume, junior clerk, assessor's branch ,, 

J. C. Hugo, turncock One week. 

13. On the recommendation of the Medical Officer, the Board approved of the following leave of absence being 
granted on account of ill-health : — 

J. Chisholm, messenger, engineer's branch One week. 

J. Colvin, mechanic, meter branch ,, 

R. Russell, engine driver, Chatswood ,, 

14. From engineer, reporting the occurrence of a fatal accident at the Wattle-street sewer, whereby two of the 
Board's maintenance men, P. Sullivan and W. Macpherson, lost their lives, and suggesting that a son of each family, if 
old enough, be appointed to the stormwater sewer gangs. 

Discussion on this matter was deferred until after the inquest is held. In the meantime letters of condolence to be at 
once forwarded to the families of the deceased men. 
13. From. assessor, for authority to pay the usual allowance of 12s. per week each to three officers engaged on 
summons work, which cannot be attended to during the ordinary office hours. 
Approved by the Board. 

1,6. At the instance of Mr. Davis, the Board directed that the Secretary be instructed to draw up a report as to the 
advisability of outside officers, such as district clerks, sanitary inspectors, &c, being required to report themselves at Head 
Office each day at the conclusion of their work. 

17. From Secretary, Board of Health, forwarding a report by the Government Analyst on the result of analyses of 
samples of water from Annanclale and other places. Mr. Hamlet described the water as standing unrivalled in excellence, 
and a really good, wholesome drinking water, suitable for all domestic purposes. 

The Board resolved that a copy of the report be forwarded to the Press for publication, and also to the Annandale 
Council. 

15. From comptroller of stores, requesting authority to expend the sum of £40 in cleaning and fettling about 40 tons 
of 6 in. pipes, taken out of ground. 

Approved by the Board. 

19. From F. C. Mcintosh, appealing against the assessment of his land, Stony Creek Road, Pymble. 
On the recommendation of the assessor it was resolved that the assessment be reduced from £50 to £27. 

20. From J. Saint}', appealing against the assessment of his land in Smith-street, Turramurra. 
On the recommendation of the assessor, it was resolved to reduce the assessment from £70 to £35. 

21. From Mount Kembla Coal and Oil Co., Ltd., requesting permission to erect a dam at the head of a small creek 
or feeder of the Cordeaux River, situated on the catchment area of the Sydney water supply. 

A minute by the engineer was read stating that the quantity of water to be impounded by this dam is so small that he 
did not think there could be any objection on the part of the Board to granting the request, subject to reconsidera- 
tion, if at any future time it is required to extend the impounding area. 

The Board resolved to grant the request, subject to the condition mentioned by the engineer. 

22. From Laurence Can-, one of the settlers on the Cordeaux River, within the catchment area, on whom notice has 
been served by the Board's Ranger to prevent his pigs entering the stream, and pointing out that he purchased the land 
long before the area was proclaimed as a watershed for the Sydney water supply ; that to carry out the alterations required 
by the Board would cost him £100, and appealing against the decision of the Board. 

A minute by the Secretary was read recommending that Mr. Carr be informed that unless he at once takes steps to 
keep his pigs out of the creek, and refrains from polluting the water in any other way, legal proceedings will be 
instituted against him with without further notice, in terms of the S2nd section of the Principal Act. 

The recommendation of the Secretary was adopted. 

23. From Superintendent of Fire Brigades, complaining of restricted flow of water in certain streets in Redfern, 
Waterloo, and Alexandria^ 

A minute by the engineer was read, recommending that certain existing 4-in. mains in these districts be cleaned at an 

estimated cost of £130 10s. 
The Board approved of the work being carried out. 

24. A minute by the engineer w-as read, recommending that the lease of lands forming portion of the Kensington 
Estate be continued for a further term, in order to conserve sufficient water for the use of the Board's tenants at the 
Engine Pond Reserve. 

The Board decided to visit and inspect the Botany watershed from Kensington down, also the sewage farm, on 
Tuesday next, 4th May, leaving the office door at 2 p.m. A report to be furnished as to the advisability of 
requiring the lessees to economise the water, also whether the Board are committed under the leases to the supply 
of any particular quantity. 

25. From E. Vindin, applying for extension of 172 yards of 4-in. water-main in Carlyle-street, Randwick ; estimated 
cost, £56 ; estimated revenue, £3 12s., or about 6A per cent, on the outlay. As the local Council have guaranteed, under 
seal, to bear the cost of raising or lowering the main, should the present surface levels he altered, the Board approved of the 
work being carried out. 

26. From A. Ogden, applying for extension of 150 yards of 4-in. water-main in Marriott-street, Redfern ; estimated 
cost, £43 ; estimated revenue, £3 6s. Sd. , or about 8 per cent, on the cost. 

Approved by the Board. 

27. From George Hudson, applying for extension of 268 yards of 4-in. water-main in Harley and Euston Streets, 
Alexandria ; estimated cost, £S7 ; estimated revenue, £1 9s., or ]§ per cent, on outlay. The applicant having agreed to 
guarantee the deficiency in revenue, the work was approved by the Board. 

28. From Municipal Council, Concord, applying for extension of water-main in Bent-street, Concord, a distance of 
54 yards, in order to couple up a dead end and improve the circulation of the water ; estimated cost of the work, £22. 

Approved by the Board. 

29. From E. Cornwell, applying for extension of 25S yards of 4-in. water-main in Beech worth -street, Pymble; 
estimated cost, £85 ; estimated revenue, £7 14s., or 9 per cent, on the outlay. 

Approved by the Board. 

30. From J. B. Wood, applying for extension of 111 yards of 4-in. water-main in Victor-street, Willoughby ; 
estimated cost, £36 ; estimated revenue, £1 15s., or 5 per cent, on the outlay. 

Approved by the Board, on condition that the applicant guarantees the deficiency. 

31. From the residents of Prospect and Sherwood, applying for extension of 6-in. water-mains from the canal along 
Sherwood P^oad to Park B.oad, thence along the latter road to Parramatta or Lucas Road, thence along the last-mentioned 
road as far as Barcom Road — in all, 2,594 yards of 6-in. main, together with 2,910 yards of 4-in. main in various streets. 
The estimated cost of the work is £2,350, and the estimated revenue £95, or about 4± per cent, on the cost of 4-in. work. 

As the Board have already decided to reticulate this district on the 5 per cent, basis, and the deficiency is only £3 15s. , 
being less than the 10 per cent, allowed, the work was recommended by the engineer. During dry seasons this 
district is very badly off for water supply, and the engineer is of opinion that the extension of this boon to the district 
will induce further settlement, and increase the revenue in a very short time sufficient to cover the deficiency. 

Approved by the Board: 

32. From C. S. Summers, applying for extension of 520 yards of 4-in. water-main in Peat's Ferry Road, Hornsby ; 
estimated cost, £169 ; estimated revenue, £9 17s., -or 54 per cent, on outlay. 

The Board approved of the work being carried out, on condition that the applicant guarantees the deficiency. 

33. From engineer, return showing lengths and sizes of sewers constructed by the Board to 24th April, 1897, also 
list of houses connected to the- sewers in the suburbs, drainage reconstructed in the city, and plumbing work carried out 
in the city and suburbs. 34. 






56 APPE1TDIX. 

34. From C. H. Crammond, applyine, on belialf of Mrs. Hyatt, for compensation for construction of manhole on her 
premises, Belgrave-street, off Audley-street, MarrickvOle. 

On the recommendation of the engineer, the Board approved of the sum of £5 being offered, without predjuice. as 
compensation in full of all demands. 

35. From W. Cockroft, for compensation for construction of manhole on his premises, Belgrave-street, Marrickville. 
On the recommendation of the engineer, the Board approved of the sum of £5 being offered, without prejudice, as 

compensation in full of all demands. 

36. From engineer, regarding the connection to the sewer of houses in the Beaconsfield Estate, Alexandria, and 
stating that the owners will not be compelled to carry out the work in connection with unoccupied houses until the 
same become tenanted ; and further, that the Board has already approved, in certain cases, of permitting the use of 
galvanised iron flush pipes in lieu of lead fittings. 

37. From engineer, recommending extension of sewerage reticulation at the Mount Albion Estate, Waverley, at an 
estimated cost of £414. 

Although the present revenue is only 1J per cent., the land on this estate is being rapidly sold, and the surrounding 
locality, which has been sewered, already returns a revenue of 8 per cent. ; the Board, therefore, on these grounds 
approved of this work being proceeded with. 
3S. The Secretary submitted a classified list of public hospitals and charitable institutions exempt from payment of 
rates. 

The consideration of this matter was deferred for one week. 

39. The Secretary submitted copies of rules and regulations for the conduct of the office, which have been approved 
from time to time, and are in use, and suggested that the same be printed and distributed for the information of officers 
and employes. 

The suggestion of the Secretary was approved by the Board. 

40. The seal of the Board was affixed to the bond in connection with R. Cough's sewerage contract No. 206. 

41. The following accounts were submitted and passed for payment. 





NtrsiBER and Salaries of StaS as at 1st March, 1S97. 




Division. 


Number of Officers. 


Aggregate Annual Salaries. 




22 


£ 




24 


3,664 


Assessor 


69 

127 
202 


10,540 


Engineer — Water Supply 


21,411 




29.219 




Totals 






444 


6S,622 







Secretary's Division Staff, as at 1st March, 1S97. 

Secretary and Chief Clerk 

Solicitor 

Paymaster and Controller of Stores 

Auditor and Examiner of Accounts— 1 at £350, 1 at £225, 1 at £200, 1 at £175, 1 at £26 

Records and Correspondence Clerks— 2 at £200, 1 at £156, 1 at £125, 1 at £65 

Medical Officer 

Bangers— 1 at £168, 1 at £50 

Printer 

Messengers— 1 at £206, 1 at £25 

Lift Attendant 

Office Cleaners— 1 at £104, 1 at £52 

Total 

Accountant' s Division Staff, as at 1st March, 1897. 

Accountant 

Receivers— 1 at £275, 1 at £200, 1 at £156 

Beceipt Clerks— 1 at £156, 2 at £104, 1 at £91 1 

Rate Ledger-keepers— 1 at £250, 1 at £200, 1 at £175, 2 at £91, 1 at £65 

Ledger-keepers (General and Special)— 1 at £200, 1 at £175, 2 at £156, 1 at £130, 2 at £104 

Voucher Clerks, &c— 2 at £78 

Messenger 

Total 

Assessor's Division Staff, as at 1st March, 1897. 



£ 

450 
400 
300 
976 
746 
125 
218 
117 
231 



500 
631 
455 
872 
1,025 
156 
25 



3,664 



1 




400 


4 




775 


2 




253 


21 


District Clerks and Collectors— 6 at £210, 4 at £175, 1 at £165, 5 at £156, 3 at £130, 1 at 
£117, 1 at £65 


3,477 


3 


Charge Clerks— 2 at £175, 1 at £143 ... 


493 


8 


New Assessments and Charges, Fees, &c— 1 at £191, 3 at £175, 2 at £156, 1 at £117, 1 at 
£104 


1.249 


4 


Rate Notices — 1 at £175, 1 at £165, 1 at £156, 1 at £65 


561 


7 


Summons Works, &e.— 1 at £175, 2 at £165, 1 at £156, 1 at £130, 1 at £117, 1 at £78 


986 
643 


10 


Waste Water Inspectors — 9 at £156, 1 at £104 


1,508 


1 




117 


1 


Hall Porter 


78 








69 


£10,540 









APPEXDIX. 



57 



Engineer Water Supply Staff, as at 1st March, 1897. 

Engineer-in- Chief 

Assistant Engineer 

Draftsmen-Surveyors— 1 at £260, 1 at £234, 1 at £175, 1 at £l56, 1 at £52 

Superintendent 

Inspectors— 1 at £402, 1 at £302, I at £183 

Foundry Inspectors — 1 at £234, 2 at £156 

Clerk of Works 

Mechanical Engineers, Fitters, &c— 1 at £453, 1 at £268, 1 at £250, 4 at £21S 8s., 1 at £195, 

1 at £182, 1 at £176, 2 at £172, 4 at £156, 1 at £91 

Firemen and Cleaners at £156 

Blacksmiths— 1 at £156, 1 *K £117 

Caretakers and Maintenance Men— 1 at £212, 1 at £197, 1 at £130, 1 at £125, 1 at £124, 

3 at £117, 13 at £115, 2 at £112, 7 at £109 4s., 1 at £12 

Gangers— 1 at £195, 1 at £140, 2 at £125, 1 at £233 

Chainman 

Turncocks— 7 at £179 8s, 11 at £140 8s., 1 at £117 

Valve Attendants— 1 at £195, 1 at £182, 1 at £137 

Plumbers— 1 at £219, 1 at £187, 2 at £140 8s., 2 at £117, 1 at £109 4s 

Carter 

Lamplighter ,.. 

Stockman 

Gardener 

Meter Readers— 1 at £208, 1 at £195, 3 at £150 

Clerks— 1 at £225, 2 at £200, 1 at £182, 1 at £156, 1 at £117, 1 at £78, 1 at £65 

Custodian of Plans 

TVal 

Engineer Seirerage Staff, as at 1st Mareli, 1897. 

Assistant Engineer 

District Engineers- 2 at £350, 1 at £300, 1 at £156,1 at £136 

Draftsmen— 2 at £300, 2 at £200, 4 at £156, 1 at £151, 1 at 136, 2 at £130 

Surveyors— 1 at £300, 6 at £234, 1 at £187, 1 at £52 

Contract Inspectors— 2 at £269, 1 at £195, 2 at £156 

Contract Overseers— 3 at £140, 2 at £133, 7 at £125 

Chainmen at £109 4s 

Sanitary Inspectors— 2 at £307, 1 at £290, 1 at £2X0, 10 at £187 4s 

Maintenance Men, Sewer Labourers, &e.— 1 at £195, 1 at £156, 69 at £117, 9 at £109 4s 

Pumping-station Engineers. &c— 1 at £208, 1 at £182, 1 at £156, 1 at £140, 3 at £117 

Sewage Farm Labourers— 1 at £156, 3 at £104, 1 at £52 

Caretakers (Stores and Pipe Dep6ts)— 1 at £175, 1 at £125, 2 at £109 4s., 1 at £78 

Carters at £179 8s 

Mechanics, Testers, &c— 1 at £160, 1 at £156, 1 at £109, 1 at £94 

Bricklayers— 2 at £156, 1 at £117 

Concrete Maker 

Carpenters— 1 at £156, 2 at £140, 1 at £125, 1 at £117, 1 at £110 

Painter 

Lamplighter 

CUrks— 1 at £200 1 at £156 1 at £14.i 

Heliographers— 1 at £141, 1 at £52 

Custodian of Plans 

Messengers— 1 at £109, 1 at £26 

Total 



£ 
1,000 
500 
S77 
452 
893 
546 
234 

3,457 

1,404 
273 

3,634 
818 
109 

2,917 
514 

1,030 
ISO 
118 
122 
114 
871 

1.223 
125 



21,411 



500 

1,292 

2,171 

1,943 

1,045 

1,561 

1,529 

3,C62 

9,407 

1,037 

520 

597 

1,435 

519 

429 

117 

788 

109 

127 

109 

499 

193 

125 



GrEADiNa of Salaries. 

Clerical Division. 
Junior Clerks from £25 to £100. 

Senior Clerks, according to value of work performed and ability, up to £275. 
District Clerks, in charge of Districts, £165 to £175, with forage in some cases. 
Waste Water Inspectors, 10s, per day. 
Meter Readers, 10s. per day. 

Engineering Division ( Water). 
Draftsmen, £52 to £260. 
Turncocks, 9s. per day. 
Gangers, Ss. per day. 

Maintenance men, 7s. 6d. and 7s. per day. 
Mechanics, according to work done. 
Engine Drivers, £4 4s. per week. 
Firemen and Cleaners, £3 per week. 
Maintenance men on Canal, £S 10s. per calendar month and cottage. 

Engineering Division (Sewerage). 
Surveyors and Draftsmen, £136 to £350. 
District Engineers, £300 to £350. 
1st Class Inspectors (Construction), 15s. per day. 
2nd Class Inspectors (Construction), 12s. 6d. per day. 
3rd Class Inspectors (Construction), 10s. per day. 
1st Class Overseers (Construction), 9s. per day. 
'2nd Class Overseers (Construction), 8s. and Ss. 6d. per clay. 
Chainmen, 7s. per day (paid for time worked only). 
Sanitary Inspectors, 16s. 4d. per day and forage. 
Assistant Sanitary Inspectors, 12s. per day. 
Sewer Maintenance men, 7s. 6d. per day. 
Labourers, 7s. per day. 

278— II 



El, 



58 



El. 

Statistics as at 30th June, 1S97. 

Capital Cost of Works (New Offices and Richmond not included) 

Number of Boroughs and Districts reticulated 

Mileage of Reticulation (exclusive of Trunk and Pumping Mains) 
Estimated population served 

Number of properties rated 

Revenue for year 

Expenses for year 

Aggregate Revenue from inception of Board 
Aggregate Expenses from inception of Board 

Capital Cost of Works — combine W. & S. — 

(a) Constructed by Government Loans ... ... 

(b) Taken over from Municipalities ... 

Total fees, &c, on account of Board since inception 

For one year : — 

Rate Notices issued 

Meter Accounts (No. of meters, 6, S44) ... 



Water Supply. 


Sewerage. 


£4,244,550 


£2,018.120 


57 


24 


925 


274 


418,512 


228,446 


120,901 


62,657 


£175,9S4 


£87,652 


£40,821 


£29,680 


£1,486,414 


£654,072 


£348,354 


£204,344 



E2. 

Finances as at 30th June, 1897. 
For one year, 1S96-7 :— 

Credit Balance available to meet Interest on Capital Cost of Works ... 
Interest payable on Capital Cost (Debentures and Loans only) 
Deficiency on year's operations 

Estimated Value of " free " services 

Arrears of Rates outstanding ... ... ... ... ... "... 

Meter Accounts included in arrears 

Rates on Churches, &c, in arrears 

Rates on vacant land ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 



£552,698 

£5,499,978 

762,692 



279,101 
10,468 



£188,799 6 4 

215,378 1 7 

26,57S 15 3 

19,535 17 

42,455 S 4 

16,364 9 6 

7,990 9 

7,741 17 1 



£6,262,670 



E3. 

Watee. 

Return showing the number of properties rated and the population supplied with water at 31st December, 

1888, together with the districts reticulated ; also, a corresponding return as on the 30th June, 1897. 



1SSS. 


1S97. 


City of Sydney 




St. 


Peters. 


City of Svdnev. 


Five Dock. 


Parramatta. 


Alexandria. 




Strathfield. 


Alexandria. 


Glebe. 


Petersham. 


Ashfield. 




Waterloo. 


Annandale. 


Gordon. 


Prospect and Sherwood. 


Balmain. 




W 


iverlev. 


Appin. 


Granville. 


Kandwick. 


Burwood. 




VV oollahra. 


Ashfield. 


Guildford. 


Redfern. 


Camperdown. 








Auburn. 


Homebush. 


Richmond. 


Canterburv. 








Balmain. 


Hoxton Park. 


Rockdale. 


Darlington. 








Bankstown. 


Hunter's Hill. 


Rookwood. 


Erskineville. 








Botany. 


Hurstville. 


Ryde. 


G-lebe. 








Burwood. 


Kogarah. 


Silverwater. 


Granville. 








Cabramatta and Canlcy Vale 


Lane Cove. 


Smithfield. 


Leichhardt. 








Campbelltown. 


Leichhardt. 


St. Peters. 


Marrickyille. 








Camperdown. 


Liverpool. 


Strathfield. 


Newtown. 








Canterbury. 


Marrickyille. 


The Island. 


North Sydney. 








Concord. 


Mosman. 


Vaucluse. 


Paddington. 








Darlington. 


Newtown. 


Waterloo. 


Petersham. 








Drummoyne. 


North Botany. 


Waverley. 


Randwick. 








Enfield. 


North Sydney. 


YVilloughby. 


Redfern. 








Erskineville. 


Paddington. 


Woollahra. 


Total properties rated . 


.... 58,8S7 


Total properties rated 




120,901 


Population supplied 




296,246 


Population supplied 




418,512 







E4. 

Sewerage. 

Return showing the number of properties rated and the population served at 31st December, 1889, 

together with the districts reticulated ; also a corresponding return as on the 30th June, 1897. 



1SS9. 






189 








City of Sydney. 




City of Sydney. 






Marrickyille. 




Darlington. 




Alexandria. 






Newtown. 




North Botany. 




Ashfield (Storm-water). 






North Botany. 




Paddington. 




Balmain (Storm-water). 






North Sydney (S 


orm- water). 


Redfern. 




Burwood (Storm -water). 
Camperdown. 
Canterbury (Storm-water) . 
Darlington. 






Paddington. 
Petersham. 
Randwick. 
Redfern. 








Enfield (Storm- water). 






Strathfield (Storm-water). 






Erskineville. 






Waterloo. 








Glebe. 






Waverley. 








Leichhardt (Storm-water) . 






Woollahra. 








Sewerage, 


















51,815 














248,712 


No. of Properties rated .... 


. 22,259 


Storm-water Di 


a'rihiqe 


Areas. 




106,843 










10,842 
















APPENDIX. 



59 



Return of Water supplied free during 1896. 



For what Purpose Supplied. 



Valu 



Charitable Institutions and Public Hospitals 

Public Paris and Gardens 

Street washing, and watering, and flushing gutters and gullies 

Watering Tramway tracks 

Municipal Baths, Parramatta 

Her Majesty's Ships of War 



51,360,000 
13,566,000 
314,453,000 
6,000,000 
1,440,000 
3,898,000 



390,717,000 



£ s. d. 

!,5G8 

678 6 

1,722 13 

300 

72 

194 18 



Comparative Return of Revenue, "Working Expenses, Rates Charged, &c, at some of the Principal Cities 
of the World, in connection with Water Supply, according to latest information received (1S93). 



Name of City. 


Yearly 
Rate on a 

house 
assessed 
at £25. 


, Percentage 
over or under 
Sydney Rate. 


Meter Charge 

per 
1,000 Gallons. 


Popula- 
tion 
Supplied. 


Percentage 
of Water 
Pumped. 


Revenue. 


Work- 
ing Ex- 
penses. 


1 Vnviit.- 
age of 
Work- 
ing Ex- 
penses 
to Re- 
venue. 


Remarks. 




£ s. d. 

14 7 
15 

1 5 

12 6 
15 
ISO 

15 

1 S 2 
15 
110 

15 S 

1 10 

14 7 

1 15 
17 1 
15 
15 
1 10 




Is. 


390,182 
55,000 

455,000 

689,129 
869,837 

850,000 

1,000, 1 

420,000 
600,000 
375,000 
870,000 
-280,0011 
360,000 
420,000 
2S0.000 

395,000 
368,700 


51 
100 

Gravitation 

100 
100 
100 
100 

41 

Gravitation 

46 

Gravitation 

7 
Gravitation 
Gravitation 
Uncertain.. 
Gravitation 
100 
43 


£ 
157,426 
22,500 
00,810 
175,365 
157,587 

254,622 
230,166 

253.274 
246,467 
100,829 
175,916 
85,694 
177,950 
44,957 
47,044 
120,728 
48,681 
64,700 
105,328 


£ 
37,141 
6,500 
15,150 
36,824 
63,03S 

94,726 
98,578 

S0.3S0 
57.S70 
24,53(1 
58,803 
27,232 
46,371 
13,354 
26,580 
23,071 
5.91S 
22,000 
30,445 
88,946 


23 
29 
25 
20 
40 

"37 
43 

31 
23 
23 
33 
31 
26 
30 
5S 
IS 
12 
35 
29 
37 


Although it would appear that 
Sydney is charged a very 
low rate as compared with 
English towns, it must be 




41-66% over.. 

tl-C(j over.. 

14-28% under 
41-66% over.. 
92% over .... 




Is. to Is. 9d. 

Is. 

6d. to 9d. 

lOd. 








land, for a rental of £25 
per annum, a very much 
larger house could be ob- 
tained than in Sydney, and 
consequently a larger quan- 
tity of water would be used. 




Southwark and Vauxhall 


41-66% over.. 

9314% over.. 
41-66% over.. 
44% over .... 


6d. to 9d. 
H.L. water 25% 
addition. 
7d. to lOJd. 
4d. to 6d". 
6d. 

6d. 


Manchester 








7-42% over .. 










42-85% over.. 

Equal 

140% over . . 
85-71% over.. 
41-66% over.. 
41-66% over.. 
42-S5% over.. 


bid. to lOd. 

id. to Od. 

6Jd. to 9d. 

7d. to Sd. 

6d. to Is. 
5d. to Is. 2d. 




Dublin 























H. 

Return showing total cost of Supervision, Manufacture, and Maintenance of Board's hired-out Meters, and Revenue 

receiv»d for rentals of same from Februarv, 1894, to 30th June, 1897. 

Br. Cr. 



John Danks and Son 



Davies, Shepherd, and Co., 



Supervision of contracts Nos. 

216 and 249 

Examination and test 

Total amount chargeable to 
Loans 



16 

573 

105 

58 

43 

1,237 

119 

17 

1 



£ t. 

32 I 

1,294 

301 

201 11 

176 2 

2,474 

321 6 

65 17 

7 17 



2,169 



160 

286 6 



5,320 2 3 



3| % interest on £5,320 2s. 3d. for 3i years 

General supervision, at £5 per month 

Inspections, repairs, and disconnections (wages) 

Allowance for collection of rentals 1J % on £1,849 16s. 6d 
„ clerical work 

Total amount chargeable to maintenance £ 



Total amount received for rental of Board's meters 
from April, 1894, to 30th June, 1897 



£ s. d. 
1,849 16 6 



605 3 3 

195 

397 10 

27 15 

150 



1,374 19 1 



Net profit on rentals £ 



1,849 16 6 
1,374 19 1 



£8 9s. %. 



Meters hired out 

Meters sold 

Meters in stock, 30th June, 1897 
Sample meters at head office 



No. 

2,169 

280 

138 



£ s. 

4,873 16 

665 18 

400 18 

10 15 



Total number of Board's meters dealt with, and contract values 2,592 

Supervision, examination, and test £509 15s. 



£5,951 8 2 



\ 



60 APPENDIX. 



Report by Dr. Kendall, Medical Adviser to the Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, on the 
Sanitary Value of Storm-water Sewers. 

To the Secretary, Royal Commission ou Metropolitan Water Supply and Sewerage Board, — 

Sir, Sydney, 28 August, 1897. 

I have the honor to state that, owing to the fact that the Registrar-General does r.ot possess the same facilities 
for analysing and classifying the certificates, my statistical information differs from that approvtd by him. 

Since the institution of the Metropolitan Board of Water Supply and Sewerage, in tlie yfar 1S8S, when the Metropolis 
received the beneli~. of the New Water Supply, tlie general deaih-rate continued to decrease yearly, fo that although it had 
reached 1910 per 10,000 of the population before that yfar, it stood at the end of the year 1891 at 169S. It was during this 
last-mentioned year, 1891, that the Sewerage System came under the control of the BoaH, and the death-rate fell more rapidly 
till it now stands at 129 7 per 10,000 of the population. The years 1891 <o 189o, inclusive, were very remarkable for the 
scanty rainfall, which decreased yearly, and for (he excessive temperatures which persisted during the summer months. This 
excessive heat and dryoess, together with the prevailing commercial depression, induced an adynamic state of health which 
rendered people more prone to contract disease. It would not, therefore, have caused any great amount oH surprise had such 
diseases as diphtheria, diarrhoea, phthisis, and enteric fever become more frequent aud more virulent. Such, however, was 
not the case, and, with the exception of an isolated epidemic, the mortality from these diseases has materially decreased, 
notwithstanding the difficulties and prejudice the Board has had to cope with during the extension of the sewerage system. 

In a metropolis such as ours, destitute of a Building Act, where the midden system had so long prevailed, and so little 
heed had been given to the condition of a building site, it could only be expected that such neglect would meet with its due reward 
in the shape of a devasta'ing disease; but although such diseases have existed during the continuance of the Board's operations, 
still, so great has been the success attending on the extension of the water and sewerage systems, these diseases have been 
effectually coin batted, and their spread to any serious degree prevented. Ha1 further powers teen possessed by the Board, 
the check on disease would have been greater; but, as it is, througn the extension of our water snpply and sewerage systems, 
boroughs, which in former times were noted for tbeir extreme unhealthiuess, have become cleaner, healthier, and now show a 
decreased mortality. The value of foul-water and storm-water sewers may be well estimated by the improvement which lias 
become apparent in the death-rate in their various localities, and there can be no question at all but that storm-water sewers 
have improved the health of those localities in which they have been constructed. 

Since the construction of these storm-water and foul-water sewers, there has been a great variation in the earth 
temperatures of the various localities, and as these temperatures have an important relation with the disease, diarrhoea, it is 
most satisfactory to note that the mortality from this disease has been reduced during the last eight years from 10'9 to 62 per 
10,000 of the population. Although diphtheria does not altogether arise from the faulty sanitary circumstances connected 
with defective drainage, s' ill such defects tend to induce a state of health which indirectly assists in the propagation of this 
disease. The value, therefore, of these storm-water and foul-water sewers will be more fully appreciated through the 
remarkable decrease in the mortality of this disease, the death-rate falling from 5'2 in 1889 to 3'1 per 10,000 of the population 
in 1891, and since then, assisted by the powerful aid of antitoxin, to '9 per 10,000 of the population. 

The decrease of the mortality from these two diseases in those places where storm-water sewers only exist has been most 
marked, and should be emphasised. Phthisis is now considered to be a disease of a micro-parasitic nature, intimately con- 
nected with damp soils, and of such a character that it! infection is capable of being transmitted by means of a specific microbe 
or virus. The construction of storm-water sewers has brought about an extension of the area thoroughly drained, thus 
abolishing stagnant pools, and indirectly improving the quality of the air. Since the installation of the present water supply 
and sewerage systems, the mortality due to phthisis has greatly decreased, viz., from 16'8 to 95 per 10,000 of the population. 
The experience of other countries lias been very Eimilar to the aboTe, as after the institution of sanitary works the mortality 
from phthisis has very considerably decreased. 

The principal disease with which the Board has had to deal in the extension of its several systems is enteric, or typhoid, 
fever. 'Ihis scourge for >ears past had been an annual visitor, and had greatly interfered with the national health, causing a 
mortality the existence of which ought to have been avoided. During the operations which bate been necessary lor developing 
the sewerage system, it has been impossible to avoid stirring up into activity the germs of disease which lay latent in the soil. 
This, however, was a temporary evil, which must be in the end followed by good, and clearly demonstrates the criminality of 
polluting the soil in the careless manner which is very evident in every one of our suburbs. It is to remedy aud prevent such 
pollution that the storm-water sewers prove of such value in those places which cannot yet be provided with a proper system 
of sewerage, more especially as they have turned foul creeks and ditches into clean concrete channels with a proper fall, so 
that there is no stagnation of slopwaters. 

Epidemics of disease will break out occasionally notwithstanding all attempts made to abolish the evil ; but the source 
of such epidemics will generally be traced to some locality where advantage has not been taken of the existing sewer, or where 
no sewer has been laid. 

In Alexandria, last year, there was a terrible epidemic of tjphoid fever, chielly in a locality where a sewer existed and 
no advantage had been taken of it ; now this sewer is fully used, and only two cases of this disease have been reported from 
that locality. 

In the Borough of Macdonaldlown — where such diseases as typhoid fever and diarrhoea were so rife that it might be 
called the hot-bed of disease — since the storm-water sewer has been constructed, the incidence of these diseases has been so 
reduced that this borough may now be called healthy. In Redfern also, wnieh is a densely-populated suburb, the con- 
struction of the foul-water and storm-water sewers has greatly decreased the death-rate. Rushcuttcrs' Bay, and the low- 
lying portions of Wo jllahra known as Double Bay, have benefited very greatly since the opening of the storm-water sewers, as 
formerly the mortality in these districts was very high. In Erskineville (or Macdonaldtowu), the mortality has fallen from 
101 per 10,000 of the population to 48. In Redfern, the mortality has fallen from 125 per 10,000 of the population to 44. 
T ti Waterloo, the mortality has fallen from 110 per 10,000 of the population to 65 per 10,000. The whole of this change has 
taken place since the construction of the storm-water sewers, and, in Redfern and Waterloo, of the foul-water sewers. The 
death-rates of Petersham and North Sydney have also decreased, but the construction of the Hoinebush Creek storm-water 
sewer is too recent to judge of its working; aud I attribute the decrease in the death-rate of its surrounding districts to the 
extension of the water supply, which has not only proved of great benefit to houses, but also has improved the milk supply 
through the purity of the water supplied to the cattle, and used for cleansing the utensils. I have no doubt, however, that, 
judging from the results obtained in other districts, the benefit to be derived from this storm-water sewer will be very great. 
It is not beyond the mark to state that, judging from the mortality table above, the saving to the national wealth through 
improved health has been about £110,000 per annum during the last seven years; and, if we were in a position to define the 
table of sickness, this saving would be found to be much greater. 

I regret that the short time allowed did not permit me to go into this interesting subject of the value of the storm- 
water sewers more fully. 

I have, &c, 

THEO MAILLER KENDALL, 

Medical Adviser, 

M.W.S. & S. Board. 



Comparison 




61 



Comparison of the Death Hate from Typhoid Fever in the Cities (excluding 
Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, and Hobart. 



suburbs) of Sydney, 





Area in acres. 


Population. 


Density 
per acre. 


Deaths from Typhoid Fever. 


City. 


Excludin 


i Hospitals. 


Includin 


[J Hospitals. 




Number. 


Kate per 10,000 

of 

Population. 


Number. 


Kate per 10,000 

of 

Population. 




2,226 
6,000 
6,400 
3,633 
3,850 
1,270 


100,000 
68,749 
61,743 
40,384 
34,129 
27,765 


411 
114 
9-6 
111 

88 

21-8 


9 

5 
16 

8 
35 

3 


•9 
•7 

2-4 

1-9 

10-2 

1-08 


42 
72 
28 
34 
84 
23 


4'2 




144 




45 




84 


Perth 


24-6 




8-2 







Phthisis. 
Reduction of Mortality (since the laying of Sewers) in the Sewered Districts. 





Density of 
Population per acre. 


Mortality. 




Rate per 10,000 of the Population. 




1S90. 


1890. 


City 


44 - 4 
37-0 
48-5 
55-9 
117 
48-3 
39 


136 
11-5 

6-1 
12-1 
159 
136 

6-1 


9'8 


Glebe 


62 




39 




5-2 




64 




7 2 




4'2 







Kl. 

Expenditure on Storm-water Sewers in Districts where a Sewerage Pate is charged. Cost of these 
works, carried out by the "Works Department, and in respect to which no Drainage Revenue can be 
levied, is merged in the Sewerage Capital Debt, and Interest and Maintenance met from Sewerage 
Revenue : — 



Contract No. 


Particulars. 


Paid from Revenue. 


Paid from Loans. 


17a 


Camper-down — 


£ s. d. 
484 8 


£ s. d. 


74 




1,218 7 3 


29 




1,221 11 5 

2,000 

2,477 15 10 
833 10 1 




59 


Glebe- 


1,428 7 5 


18 


Alexandria — 

Eveleigh Yards, along Alexander-street 




48a & pari of 55a 
48 






2,610 


55 & part of 55a 
61 






1,500 






2,185 


71 






1,825 10 8 


19 


Redfern — 


6,120 




91 

85 


Eedfern and Waterloo — 

Shea's Creek, from Baptist and Phillip streets to 
McEvoy-street 


8,620 9 7 
2,899 18 


20 






706 3 3 












13,136 18 


22,993 16 2 




Total 


£36,130 14 2 



K2. 

Storm- water Drains. 
"Works constructed, or in progress, in respect to which Drainage Revenue is not yet collected. 



Description of Drain. 

Rushcutters' Bay — 

Board's Contract No. 187, &c 

Double Bay — 

Wages of Board's Staff 

North Sydney — 

Municipal Council's Works 

Board's Contract No. 136 

„ 188 

200 

„ 208 

Board's Sundry Amounts 

Sundry small amounts expended by the 
Board, distributable over the whole of 
Storm-water Drains , 



660 10 9 

2,235 14 3 

493 17 4 

6 14 9 



£ s. d. 

588 7 10 

100 

4,423 

4,733 7 3 



3,402 17 1 

120 17 10 

£13,36S 10 



In progress. 



Drainage area in course of preparation ; 
probably be rated from 1st Oct., 1897. 



In progress ; works only just commenced. 



62 



Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, 
Sir, Office, 501 Collins-street, Melbourne, 17 September, 1897. 

In reply to your letter of the 15th instant, received this morning, asking for information as to the system adopted 
by this Board in respect to the levying of water and sewerage rates within the metropolitan boundaries, I beg to state as 
follows :— 

The Board's operations in regard to water and sewerage rating are kept entirely distinct. 

Although the Board has been in existence since March, 1891, no sewerage rate has yet been levied in consequence of 
the surplus revenue from water supply having been sufficient to meet the interest on moneys borrowed till within a recent date. 
It was intended to have struck a sewerage rate last year ; but, as amending legislation was pending, action was deferred. 
Under the provisions of an Amending Act passed by Parliament last month, the differential principle upon which sewerage 
rates will be levied is as follows : — 

The entire metropolitan area (which consists of twenty-four municipalities and parts of two other municipalities) is 
divided into two sections — an outer fringe, which has been defined by the Engineer-in-Chief of the Board as the area which 
will not be sewered until a very remote period, if ever, and an inner area, which includes all the portions of the metropolis 
which are to be immediately or eventually sewered. The existing relative valuations of these areas are at present : — ■ 

Inner area £3,975,699 

Outer area 243,035 

Parliament lias provided that upon all properties in the outer area a rate of Id. in the pound is to be levied for a period 
of nine years. Upon all unsewered properties within the inner area a rate of 2d. in the pound is to be levied for a period of 
nine years. Upon all sewered properties within the inner area a rate of Is. in the pound is compulsory so long as any rates 
are made upon the unsewered properties. 

It is intended that a sewerage rate upon the differential basis indicated shall be struck during the present financial year, 
which ends on the 30th June, 1897, and this rate will date as from the 1st July, 1897. The Board is only waiting for the 
completion of certain legal preliminaries prior to taking the necessary action in this direction. 

As to water supply, the Board has continued the practice that prevailed under the Government, viz., of charging a rate 
of 6d. in the pound up to £300 valuation, and £1 10s. per cent, above £300 valuation on all ordinary tenements ; but for 
buildings built and used for storage purposes, such as bonded stores, &c, the rate is reduced above the £300 valuation to £1 
per cent, instead of £1 10s. per cent. 

A charge of Is. per thousand gallons is made for water supplied by measure, the minimum charge in all cases where 
meters are affixed being £1 per annum. 

The capital expended to the 30th June last was — on waterworks construction, £3,6S1,327, and sewerage construction, 
£2,077,197. 

I enclose copies of Board's original Act and Amending Act, also copy of By-law No. 7, which is awaiting the approval 
of the Governor-in-Couneil. 

Any further information you may desire I will be most happy to furnish. 

Map and Schedule also enclosed. I have, &c, 

GEO. A. GIBBS, 
The Secretary, Koyal Commission on Metropolitan Board of Water Supply and Sewerage, Secretary. 

Care of Public Works Department, Sydney. 

Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, 
Sir, Office, 501 Collins-street, Melbourne, 17 September, 1897. 

My letter of this morning, in reply to yours of the 15th inst., was very hurriedly written prior to a visit of 
inspection to some of our works. 

The statement contained on page 3 relative to the minimum meter charge requires modifying so as to read, that in cases 
where the supply is solely for purposes other than domestic, the minimum charge is £1 per annum ; but where the supply is 
for domestic purposes, the minimum charge is the assessed rate. I have, &c, 

GEO. A. GIBBS, 

Secretary. 
The Secretary, Royal (Jornmission on Metropolitan Board of Water Supply and Sewerage, 
Care of Public W orks Department, Sydney. 



Ml. 

Table showing, approximately, the Sewerage rate per £ which it would be necessary to charge under 
different systems of rating to rne^t requirements on the ultimate final completion of the Sewerage 
Scheme, calculated upon the present assessed annual values of properties. 





Districts 


Districts 


Districts 


Districts 


Districts 


Botany 

and 
Western 
Suburbs 
Combined. 






draining 


draining 


draining 


draining into 


draining 


Treating 


System of Rating. 


into Main 
Northern 


into Main 
Southern 


into 
Outfall ' 


Western 
Suburbs 


into 
Outfall at 


the whole 




Outfall at 


Outfall at 


at 


Outfall at 


North 


Scheme. 




Bondi. 


Botany. 


Randwick. 


Arncliffe. 


Sydney. 






d. 


s. d. 


s. d. 


s. d. 


s. d. 


s. d. 


d. 


1. One General Kate on all Properties ... 


7 


i o: 


1 5i 


1 li 


1 oi 


1 li 


9 


2. One General Bate on Properties which 


7i 


1 2 


4 3i 


1 10 


1 6i 


1 b'i 


10J 


can be Sewered. 
















3. Health Bate on all Properties, to meet 


5 


9 


1 Pi 


9i 


8J- 


9i 


6i 


Interest on Permanent Worts, and 
















Annual Instalments on Renewable 
















Works. 
















4. Special or Sewerage Rate on Properties 


2i 


4 


1 SI 


6-V 


5i 


5i 


3 


which can be Sewered, to meet 
















expenses of Maintenance and Man- 
















agement. 
















Total Rate, Sewered Areas 


7i 


1 1 


2 Si 


1 4 


1 2 


I 2J 


9.V 


Total Rate, Outside Areas . 


5 


9 


1 0i 


9* 


8i 


9i 


6i 


5. Health Rate on all Properties, to meet 


3 


6 


7 


6J- 


5i 


6i 


4i 


Interest on Permanent Works only. 
















6. Special or Sewerage Rate on Properties 


*i 


7i 


2 6S 


Hi 


10 


9} 


5f 


which can be Sewered, to provide 
















Annual Instalment on Renewable 
















Works, and meet expenses of Main- 
















tenance and Management. 
















Total Rate, Sewered Areas 


n 


i u 


3 If 


1 5J 


1 3i 


1 4 


10 


Total Rate, Outside Areas 


3 


6 


7 


6* 


5i 


6i 


4i 



63 



12. 
Main Nokthern Outfall, Bondi. 



Ultimate Cost of Works. 



Ultimate Revenue required. 



Government Works — £ s . d. 

Costtodate 821,254 

Amount required to com- 
plete 218,678 



Board's Sewers — 

Costtodate 235,000 

Amount required to com- 
plete 115,000 



Debentures and Overdrafts — 

CityCouncil 248,110 

Balmain Council 2,500 

Darlington Council 5,000 

Land purchased by Board... 513 



Interest on cost of Government Works 
£1,039,932, at 3+ per cent. 



1,1139,932 



35o,ii0() 



250,123 O 



1,646,055 



Annual instalments to redeem cost of 
renewable works, £606,123, in 100 years, 
at 3i per cent 

Maintenance and management, £1,646,055, 
at li percent 



£ s. d. 
36,397 



21,918 
24,690 



£83,005 



M3. 

Main Southern Outfall, Botany. 



JHittiate Cost of Works. 



.■evnment Workf • £ s. d 

Costtodate ..r"" .... 310,502 
A mount requiiy l t0 co '\n- 

'plete , ' 



Board's Sewers^ - 

Cost to date! ....••. 91,330 

Amount required i° com ' ; 

Piele :. ^ 6,500 

Debentures — 

CityCouncil ■ 5 '000 

Redfern 30/000 



310,502 

117,830 
35,000 



£463,332 



Ultimate Revenue required. 



Interest on cost of Government Works 
£310,502, at 3i per cent 



Annual instalment, to redeem cost of 
renewable works, £152,830, in 100 years, 
at 34- per cent 



Maintenance and management, £463,332. 
at 1| per cent 



14, 
Bandwick Outfall. 



Ultimate Cost of Works 



nedali Works — £ (j. 

mount required to com- 

; plete 

(ii'd's reticulation sewers — 

00 Board's sewers C C < ash ) , „/„ 
n debentures... J ^ p'> 071 ° « 
lount required to com- 
pete 12,000 



£ s. d. 
42,758 



29,071 



Ultimate Revenue requived. 



Interest on cost of Government works, 
£42,758, at 3 J per cent 



Annual instalments to redeem cost of re- 
newable works, £29,071, in 100 years, 
years, at 3J- percent 



£71,829 



Maintenance and management, £71,829, at 
li per cent 



Ultimate Cost of Works. 



15. 
"Western Suburbs Sewebage. 



»t Bain Sewerage £ fl . d. 

>to.... ....185,278 

[•equired to com- 

i 434,212 



Storm-water 
<)r Ducts — Cost to 

fee 

. s Reticulation Sewers — 

it to date ^5,575 

lount required to com- 

'lete 297,605 u 



£ s. d. 



619,590 
135,000 



323, ISO 



£1,077,770 



Ultimate Revenue required. 



Interest on Total Cost of Government 
Work, £754,590, at 3J per cent, per 
annum 



Annual Instalment, to redeem £323,180 in 
100 years, at 3£ per cent, per annum 

Maintenance of Works, reckoned at li per 
cent, on Total Cost, £1,077,770 



£ s. d. 
10,867 



5,526 
6,949 



£23,342 



£ s. d. 
1,496 



1,051 
1,077 



£3,024 



Total. 



£ s. d. 

26,410 

11,686 

16,166 



€54,202 



64 



M6. 

North Sydney Sewerage. 



Ultimate Cost o Works 



Total. 



Ultimate Revenue required. 



Government Main Works — Constructed and 
in progress 

Board's Works — Constructed and in progress 
or under survey 

Storm-water Duets, for which authority has 
been obtained by Public Works Depart- 
ment 

Amount paid Borough Council for their 
Drains 

Portion Neutral Bay — 

Sub-main 

Reticulation 



£ s. d. 

110,000 

45,000 

10,000 

4,500 

15,000 

20,000 



1-201,500 



Interest on Cost of Main Works, £135,000, 
at 3 J- per cent 

Annual Instalments to redeem Renewable 
Works, £69,500, with interest at 3J- per 
cent, in 100 years 

Maintenance and Management, £204,500. 
at li per cent 



£ s. d. 

4,725 

2,513 

3,067 



£10,305 



Ultimate Cost of Works 



M7. 

All Districts Combined. 



Government Works — £ s. d. 

Cost to date 1,502,134 

Amount required to com- 
plete 720,648 0] 

Board's Reticulation Sewers — 

Costtodate 413,976 

Amount required to com- 
plete 471,105 



Debentures, &c. 



2,282.782 



S85,081 
295.G23 



£ 3,463,486 



: required. 



Interest on cost of Government Wo 
£2,2S2,782, at 8} per cent 

ist of re 
Annual Instalments, to redeem Cqq Tear cj 
newable works, £1,180,704 in ' ' 
at 31- per cent 

,£3,463,481? 

Maintenance and Management ,'-'•>: 

at 1J per cent " ""/. 



79,895 



42,694 
V 51,949 








i4,538 C 



N. 

Melbourne System of Eating. 



£ 
707,<! 
3,770, 

Total values ( £4,478,0' 

r- Tir 3 



The assessed value of properties within Municipalities, but outside the area which wil ( be sewered is 
The assessed value of properties which can be sewered is j 



The revenue required to be provided amounts to 
2d. in the £ on £707,413 is 



The amount to be provided by the sewerage rates is therefore- : £163 

To raise this sum a rate of lOid. in the £ must be struck on all properties which can be sewered. 



Sydney : William Applegate Gulliek, Government Printer.— 1S97, 




^ 



* 





•-■ 




|fonl\Sl'.' 



7^7^ 






__ 



m^A~ 



SYDNEY AND SUBURBS 

SEWERAGE SYSTEM. 

Scale, 40 Chains to an Inch. 



« 



^^ 



: 




ill 




»»'<»/i/ 1 



/ \h 



*//' 




P A * * 4 



Cu »> Cu»i H«,d 


Quarantine -- X ¥ 
Ground 1 f 



1 

I 



iHtddif n« 



Iniirr South Hi-*rt 






CoW<>rd 



r rs, 




&& 






\:, ■■-/- 



/TV "ni" : Xv*' 





»v 



oit 



NOTES. 

NORTHERN SYSTEM, constructed and to be constructed. Draining into B0HDI OUTFALL shewn 

SOUTHERN SYSTEM, constructed ■-■-.... BOTANY SEWAGE FARM 
WESTERN SUBURBS, constructed and to be constructed „ ., ARNCLIFFE SEWAGE FARM .. 
RANDWICK. to be constructed ---■-.... COOGEE OUTFALL 
NORTH SYDNEY, constructed and to be constructed ■ .. .. WILLOUGHBY OUTFALL 
ENFIELD and CANTERBURY, proposed to be constructed „ n ARNCUFFE SEWAGE FARM .. 
LOW LEVELS, proposed to be constructed ■ 



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